Next game we could try a different combination - they couldn't do any worse.

1 Loye
2 Read
3 Vaughan
4 Bopara
5 Flintoff
6 Collingwood
7 Joyce
8 Tremlett
9 Plunkett
10 Lewis
11 Anderson

5 strike bowlers. Don't bother with spin letting batsmen accumulate runs.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. A top order of Strauss, Vaughan, Bell, Joyce, Pietersen, Flintoff and Collingwood looks excellent... and if Dalrymple plays as well the batting is getting ludicrously deep, forcing the 'keeper down to 9 ahead of Lewis (Simon Jones when fit) and Anderson.

With Tremlett and Panesar in the wings... I really don't see a problem with England's ODI side that goes beyond getting injured folk back, getting Fletcher to overcome his abhorence of Read and getting the compartative novices into the 50+ ODI caps bracket.

The thing is, Rachael, this batting line-up seems good for test matches, but seems woefully lacking for ODIs. There is an absence of big-hitters, Flintoff and Pietersen apart.

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Nobody has a batting stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

Anyone who can sustain a strike rate of 70+ is in good company in ODI cricket... and that's as achievable through rotating the strike as through big hits: I for one prefer to see batsmen post 50+ through low risk shots that keep the scoreboard ticking rather than through looking to ride their luck with big heaves through the line.

If there's a problem with England's batting at present it's a tendency to panic: the Aussie fielding in particular has been so hot that the batsmen have looked hesitant in their running... and the pressure has led to slogs where they ain't needed.

Bottom line: this top order should be capable of getting England to 160-180 inside 40 overs with wickets in hand... which is a decent platform for posting the sort of 240-260 scores needed to compete consistently at the highest level.

Fortunately, Anderson and Flintoff are finding the sort of form that wins matches... and with Lewis, Dalrymple, Collingwood and folk like Tremlett and Panesar... the bowling unit looks capable of consistently restricting opponents to no more than 250 on pretty much any surface.

You'll always get games when an opposition pinch-hitter overcomes the bowling and helps post a total that's out of reach... but if England can consistently post 240-260 and consistently bowl to potential... they should be as likely as anyone to triumph over a long series.

Its all ifs and buts. Nobody is peforming. You can open with tremlett and strauss for all I care. Heads are down, fred is trying to carry everything on his shoulders but cant lift the team. We need to stop the rot very very quickly or this tour could put english cricket back 10 years - if it hasnt already.

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Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!

Too many 'bitsa' players in the one day squad for my liking.

I think after the performance today we need to act quickly before friday. Freddy needs a rest and lets face it, we've shot our bolt here. we wont win any medals , so lets experiment for the world cup. After all, we've got to win the world cup.
So a new captain, freddy goes out , and we move on. (fred can come back for the world cup but now he just looks jaded.)

Positives from today. Ed Joyce showed he could bat a bit. Our bowling was good. But key players just haven't fired and they look like their bats are made of concrete.
It just shows the mental state of our players. damage limitation ? Maybe, but like RBLC says, were in 1996 again.

England MUST win now, and lets face it its not gona happen. So lets experiment.

We just lost our nounce today. Big time

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I have a dream.... (Martin Luther King)

LOL you must be joking - this Joyce appart is the same line up that has failed England time and time again, England are #8 in the one day rankings.

It's about time England scoured the counties for players thay can play one day cricket, as usual Englands bolwing was not that bad - but Englands batting is getting worse.

Bell Strauss and Vaughan should 100% not play one day cricket, and a big question mark over the other batters.

You see this form will spill over into the Test side, that's why Test players should not get involved in ODI's.

darksideofthemoon is right - England do have a problem with one day cricket, and that has not helped the Ashes campaign IMO.

Also I would say the "darksideofthemoon X1" has the best chance of reaching the final, and even beating Australia in that final - out of the present inadiquate squad.

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Ern

Conveniently overlooking performances like the following... where Bell and Strauss romped along against a superb Pakistan attack led by Akhtar and Asif:Or this crunch semi-final against the Aussies:What England needs is an attack that can consistently restrict opponents to a maximum of around 240: an eminently achievable target that is perhaps not so very far off now that Flintoff and Anderson have found the form to lead the attack and with Lewis, Dalrymple, Collingwood and Tremlett / Panesar / Giles looking so promising in support.

Once the batsmen are confident that the bowlers can manage with 240 I'm pretty sure England's batting will start to click: I'm pretty sure the biggest problem England have been having with the bat is doubt that such a huge total is enough for the team's profligate attack... but I don't see any reason to doubt that England will give a good account of themselves at the World Cup so long as the key players (notably Pietersen with the bat, Flintoff with the ball and Vaughan as captain) remain fit and effective.

We're just so slow. In the opening overs, we scored runs but at a ridiculous rate. I think our first 50 took over 100 balls! We'll never post or chase totals over 200 - now the bare minimum it seems in ODIs - with strike rates as rubbish as these.

What exactly is Nixon contributing that Read couldn't? A worse keeper, and not making the promised runs.
So he gives good mouth on the field. So what? Hardly one for the future given that he's 36.
Whoever plays as keeper, Dalrymple should bat above them.

My only hope is that NZ qualify for the final so that we can go home sooner rather than later, although DF and tyhe ECB have probably optimistically booked a plane home AFTER the finals.
If, by some miracle, we get to the finals, it will be a right royal thrashing anyway.

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Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

I can see where Jenko is coming from but I'd go the other way. I'd just use who is available and take it on the chin, let the stronger personalities come to for and the rest, certainly those involved in the test set up - dump.

The list of mentally scarred failures will be exactly the same scenario as the 90s ie quality players like hich, ramps caddick (to an extent) are shot and we'll spend a year or more hoping they'll suddenly get over it only to find they wont. Strauss, coly cook and bell dont need to even look at a test side for 6 months or more and trescoand harmison shouldnt play again. Mahmood and anderson back to the counties for at least a year, and keep tremlett away from this car crash that is this entire tour. the whole idea of sticking new blood without any match practice and lead by muppets surrounded by a side that cant win for toffee is totally pointless. Write the tour off and start again after (a very short) world cup campaign.

Yes I have had a crap day at work !

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Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!