England's sorry tour of Australia imploded today in possibly the worst ODI performance by England in recent years.
Fllintoff really isn't the ideal captain for England, he has enough to do. The confidence is so rock bottom now. I expect that we'll lose all of the remaining matches and it dates back to the ashes when we lost on the Fifth day on the second test at Adelaide.
The simple fact is that success breeds success; the ashes in England was a great success but we will learn more from this failure. We have to learn .
The Ashes 2006 will be bad for grass roots cricket as all the youngsters who picked up a bat to mimick their idols now will be thinking 'the sport of loosers'. And it's no good saying 'the luck wasn't there' or 'we had injuries' or we're touring'

The bottom line is that we were under-cooked going, we weren't ready to fight or win (and haven't looked like winning any match).The only match we've won was a scrape home verses New Zealand (and it wasn't England who won the match so much as new Zealand who lost it).
We've come nowhere close to the awesome hights of Australia (who will replace the world class Warne and McGrath with people just as good) and truethfully, the one day utfit just shows the lack of vision in the England outfit.
Our one day outfit really needs to be made up of a core of 25 players maximum and talent needs identifying much earlier.
Loye should have been picked 5 or even 10 years ago . Bringing him now at the fag end of a career is asking for problems.

Just look at the score card. if you were the coach , you'd be in that dressing room wanting answers to why that happened.

Its an absolute shambles now.

Drop Flintoff ( he has to take responsibility, he wanted the captaincy) and all the jaded loosers now. Give the captaincy to Loy or Bell (or a batsman for goodness sake), tell Flintoff to concentrate on his batting (and the world cup) ,as his batting has dropped off (last century? last big centuary) since the introduction of his captaincy role. Look at what happened when he batted with Pieterson in the Ashes in 04 and compare to 06.

The days of listening to Flintoffs innings 'Hes hit it like a kicking horse and fetch the tin hats' seem a long way off don't they.
Seriously. On paper England look like a good team, but when it comes down to the crunch they haven't got the mental attitude to hit the killer blows.

In sport, you make a lot of your own luck any way, study the opposition, prepare to win. If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.

Whats so annoying is that we know they are a good side (ten years ago we knew they were an average side)
because we've won big in the recent past with a similar set up. It's not as if everyone's retired à la England Rugby team . Ok, so you'll all jump up and down about injuries to Jones, Vaughan, Giles, etc. But if we had depth in our game (and I believe wo should and could) a few injuries shouldn't really matter.

Let's compare two world class spinners, Warne and Mcgill. I've always thought Mcgill was technically better than Warne. But Warne just oozes belief. And that's why mcgill never gets a game. Cricket is a game played IN THE HEAD.

I'm really dissapointed in Collingwood on this tour, especially so in the ODI format. He should be setting an example and he's just not doing it.

Now there is no damage to limit . Its about survival and learning , and preparing for the World cup.
The coach has to go . The chairman of selectors must go, as must the selection board. The new coach alone should select (as in football or rugby).The captain has to change. We have to pick a stable side instead of chopping dropping changing and whinging .We must move forward now. If we don't, the world cup will be an embarrasment too far for grass roots support to take.

I want to watch cricket ,England, not the Muppet Show

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I have a dream.... (Martin Luther King)

I said earlier that Channel Nine advertised this morning (AEST) that their coverage was going to start at 7 PM. Presumably, they expected Lunch to start at the advertised time. When I turned on the telly at 7 PM the coverage had already started and I saw the last 15 mins of the match as it finished at 7:15 PM. Presumably, CH 9 started their coverage early due to an earlier than expected start to the 2nd Innings. I got to see Tremlett bowling medium-pace practice balls to Ponting and Hayden. The commentators were saying that Hayden looked like he was in a net session so slow was his strike-rate but I reckon it was the England bowlers who were dishing up net practice type medium pacers.

The commentators were saying this was one of the most one-sided matches they'd ever seen. No wonder Fletcher has publically apologized. The wicket was good to bat on so the England batsmen could offer no excuses whatsoever.

You have to laugh now as if you didn't you would want to cry.

What is funny though is that Fletcher thinks they can have an impact in the World Cup.

Richard - England were one day flops long before Flintoff became captain, in fact they were #8 in the world, with Bangladesh and Zimbawe bellow them.

In fact Flintoff has played some good cricket in this one day series, either with the bat or ball.

What is wrong with England is they have no strength in depth, Trescothick went - and England had no replacment, far to much was expected of Panesar (he after all is only a novice) - Vaughan is injured, "so what" England was just as poor when he played, and he himself has been out of form in all types of cricket for to long.

What was Plunkett supposed to do today?, he not had a match, Tremlett has hardly played nay cricket.

It's about time the England selectors realised the England test team is not good enough to compete in ODI's, in fact with their injuries England have no depth to play Test cricket.

With Pietersen and Trescothick gone - England never stood a chance.
There has been an England side as bad as this - Gower was captain when his side was getting poached one by one for the rebel tour to SA, the year Igglesden made his debut.

But come on shock horror the worlds #8 gets beat with the World Champions - what a surprise.

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Ern

He had no chance and i felt sorry for him today.They may as well have stuck him in the A squad and given him some matches instead of wasting his time through the tour sitting on his ****.

We need to cut our losses and come home before everything is ruined. If we leave now, then maybe we can go into World Cup having trained for a long long time and be something. If we stay we will become nothing and anything other than changing the whole squad won't work...

Ern, you must be nearing your quota of matches for Fred to lose as captain. You must see he just can't lead or inspire his team, and he needs a rest himself anyway for the rest of this tournament. I'd never say it's all his fault, it clearly and painfully shows problems across the board, but even without the other factors he is not a captain and his record is dire.

Richard - you're spot on there, I can't disagree with any of your post, though I'd have Strauss in as captain permanently now, since Vaughan is still injury prone. Spot on.

I can, but only a couple of things:

I'm not entirely sure what this means, because the 2nd half the sentence completely contradicts the first half (unless I'm reading it wrong).

And the title of the post: "The only way is up" - who here hadn't already thought that England couldn't possibly get any worse... at very regular intervals during the tour. Especially after losing to NZ. But 110 a/o is a new low. But who's to say we can't get even worse yet.

I say bollocks to the comments from Fletch etc. about us wanting to get through to the finals of this trophy - just get our boys home as quick as possible and throw them in the nets and lock them there until the WC starts.

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Six and Out: Fine cricket journalism: http://www.sixandout.net/

That's where most of Fletcher's ideal WC XI are isn't it? Tresco, Pietersen, Geraint and Simon Jones, Blackwell, Giles, Gough, Harmison... and Vaughan's doing the net bit even if he's not home.

Two bright notes for Fletcher: Tremlett is now surely WAY ahead of Plunkett in the pecking order... and Panesar looks an increasingly secure bet as a frontline bowler. That suggests a WC squad (bowling) of:

Anderson
Lewis
Flintoff
Tremlett
Panesar
Collingwood
Dalrymple
Giles

Let's just hope that crew remains fit!

I am not saying Flintoff is a good captain or not, he just has not had chance to prove anything on this tour, when I saw the squad back in the Autum - I was not optimistic at all - even Vaughan when he captained could not stop a thrashing I think Flintoff would be well out of this England managment.
You have hit the nail on the head - there have been problems across the board, showed mainly in Englands lack of depth to cover Harmison and Trescothick.

England have been unlucky with injuries ect, but the problems with Harmison and Treascothick were known at the time the squad was picked - the pitches have been flat, but no Key or Ed Smith as cover, no kirtley or Chapple to bring some stability to the bowling.

The England selectors thought Panesar was God, and Englands answer to Warne - well the selectors got it wrong this time, and for years in ODI's.

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Ern