Australia v Pakistan: build-up

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Maranello

I am not sure there is an obsession with impact in Pakistan amongst serious observers

Now, there you have, one more term worthy of a place on my all time list - the serious observer. Only problem here being vast majority of the fans are not serious observers who you might find discussing cricket at message boards like this one, especially not at 5 in the morning . They are they ones that read the taboloids, and misleaded into thinking that so and so is the next Sachin Tendulkar so he must be in the team or so and so is the next Wasim Akram so he must be hailed to the skies. I'm a beliver obsession of any kind in cricket in particular is media bred, especially in this part of the world.

Take the example of Salman Butt. No one disputes him being a very talented, promising player, he has been one for a while actually, coming through the ranks, he's always been some one to watch out for. But one match winning innings against India, and a well spoken post match interview later ....his status has been risen from Salman WHO? to Salman you-know-who...all over the taboloids, with one local paper that I'm subscribed too unfortunately not having enough of telling its readers how they were the first newspaper agency to get an exclusive photo shot of Butt and his imediate family. I'm not a big supporter of raising anyone to sudden stardom status, it can have all sorts of affects on you as a person. Here is young man, who has just turned 20, is on his first overseas tour with senior national side, and he has all this pressure of expectation from his die hards loming over his head. Don't get me wrong here, I too think the lad is fantastic player, but he could have done with a little less hype, there would have been less pressure on him that way.

Originally Posted by Maranello

What we have now are players who, at the moment, are in the Hick category, stroke players who are not quite there at international level, and who lack the grit, toughness and determination to make up for it.

That must be Imran Nazir you are talking about. About Farhat and Hameed I would not jump up to that conclusion this early. That is way, way too harsh for my liking. But makes me regret all the more why we don't have Taufeeq Umar in Perth with us right now, he seemed the most determined of the lot of players we have managed to come up with for a while. And certainly the most eager to bogg down and make runs even when he was aparently looking ugly as it were.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Maranello

On your comparisons, only youngster would make the claims you suggest. However, everyone would, rightly, say that Waqar should be hailed above Pollock, and the glories of Wasim would be hailed over those of McGrath.

I like the way you moved the target there Maranello: some thought went into my setting up of Akhtar (rather than Waqar) with Pollock.. and Waqar (rather than Wasim) with McGrath: your own comparisons are difficult calls.. but I submit that my own do not.

Originally Posted by Maranello

Inzi is a different case [...] over the past year and a half, he has been a changed man, and his batting has been something to behold; classic defense, excellent shot selection, and judicious attack. In this period, I would rather have him over Dravid any day, since Inzamam is a leader with the bat - he mentors others around him and nurtures them through their innings, a role Miandad performed over many many years with distinction.

Its an invidious comparison.. because by comparison with Dravid ANY current player comes off 2nd best (and I don't think Inzi is an exception to that rule)... but I'd agree with you that the guy I once termed "the disgraceful blob" has transformed himself into one of the most worthy middle order batsmen in world cricket.

Originally Posted by Maranello

What we have now are players who, at the moment, are in the Hick category, stroke players who are not quite there at international level, and who lack the grit, toughness and determination to make up for it.

Quite agree. The good news being that they are mostly young and that Woolmer will soon make it clear to them that they either buck there ideas up or make way for someone else. This Aussie tour should be highly educational for the players: let's hope they learn from it.

[Maranello]

Aah so you noticed my moving the goalposts on the fast bowlers Your comparisons were such that only the most blinkered of observers would defence the calls you presented as being outlandish. Mine, on the other hand (ie Waqar v Pollock & Wasim v McGrath), are areas for genuine debate, where sensible people could rightly disagree...

Originally Posted by Rachael

The good news being that they are mostly young and that Woolmer will soon make it clear to them that they either buck there ideas up or make way for someone else.

Yes that I think is the crucial point. As we discussed on other threads a while back, professional has sadly been lacking from all aspects of Pakistani cricket (including the national team) for a long time. The Lahore Academy, the coaching workshops, and the clinics at the grassroots level and the Woolmer effect on the national level should change that, albeit slowly. So we will get youngsters who value their wickets, are prepared to hang about at the crease, and be patient as well as play their natural shots. At the moment, one can't really blame a 19 y.o. who only wants to play shots, if that's all he has ever seen on the TV and in the stadia (ie an overdose on ODIs) and has never been taught otherwise!

Hence I am glad that we have guys like Butt, Farhat and Taufeeq (sadly missing at the moment), who are all very promising, but still only 20/21/22... this is the right age for Pakistani crickters to come into the national set-up, not the ripe old 25 at which Yasir Hameed made his debut (he is 27 now). This is because we do not have a domestic set-up which churns out Hussys, Laws and Katiches by the truckload. Our domestic set-up is in fact a negative in international players' development, since players learn to focus on the short-termism of ODI-type innings there.

Once a promising youngster is extracted from the domestic set-up, he can learn his trade in the international arena; sure he will be very green to start off with, as Butt is now. But if the talent and the temperament is there, then hard work over many years will mean that by the time this guy is 27, he is a genuinely good Test-standard batsman. This is how we have always discovered our best batsmen, from Miandad, through Malik, Inzamam, Anwar, etc. And in fact, the same works for bowlers too; even if these youngsters are not good enough or experienced enough to win a lot this year, they should be persevered with, since only a longer-term view will get us a world-beating team. There are no quick fixes I am afraid, and quite right too.

This is why BW is so, so keen on continuity of selection. Let's hope for once PCB agree in that; their ususual wont is to play musical chairs and keep chopping and changing the same faces every season, thus not allowing anyone to develop.

[Maranello]

When does the WA vs Pak match start? Its probably time now in Perth, isn't it?

[Beny]

I imagaine it should have just started about 20 mins ago.

I've been trying to find out who this Doery, guy is. He's not listed as a WA contracted player and I've never heard of him before but he's taken 3 wickets at a good economy rate.

I also can't find him on any Grade cricket scorecards..

[Maranello]

I see, he didn't do badly at all did he!

Anyplace where a web scoreboard/radio commentary/text commentary might be available?

[Beny]

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/C...10DEC2004.html

[Beny]

http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2...12DEC2004.html

[Rachael]

ROFLOL: the great Mohammad Sami returns 16 3 83 1 with 10nb - just a touch wayward at 5.2 / over :-D

I guess it's better than Shoaib Malik 1 0 15 0 (2nb)!

[Beny]

I'm starting to wonder weather or not NZ was more of a challenge.