Can Pakistan shock Australia/,>

[imaginarydiva]

Thats weird but i guess its all in the hands of the team management altho i dont understand why so many people feel that swashbuckling batsmen arent for Test cricket.Virender Sehwag definitely is a good example to prove them wrong.

[The Great DonTalon]

Of course they cannot shock Australia - Pakistan neither has the class nor the consistency to challenge australia in a tests match or for the matter even an ODI. They dont have the batsmen for the job - the job being consistent attack and batting for 5 sessions at 80-90 runs a session . Neither do they have the bowling to put pressure on opposing teams consistently especially teams with batsmen who are assured of their on game as the Australians so obviously are. They also do not have wicket takers in their teams which are always need to get lads out.


For Pakistan to do well against Australia a miracle will be needed.

[King Aragorn]

Originally Posted by The Great DonTalon

Of course they cannot shock Australia - Pakistan neither has the class nor the consistency to challenge australia in a tests match or for the matter even an ODI. They dont have the batsmen for the job - the job being consistent attack and batting for 5 sessions at 80-90 runs a session . Neither do they have the bowling to put pressure on opposing teams consistently especially teams with batsmen who are assured of their on game as the Australians so obviously are. They also do not have wicket takers in their teams which are always need to get lads out.


For Pakistan to do well against Australia a miracle will be needed.

I'm afraid I disagree here with you. Pakistan is certainly very unpredictable as you said - which means that when a good performance is expected from them, they let the fans down but also, when they are supposed to lose big time, they can put in a great performance as well...that's being unpredictable - it works both ways.

Pakistani batting has always been the problem in Australia and they will really need to be at their best to battle the likes of McGrath, Gillespie, Kaspa, Warne. But Inzamam and Youhana are two batsmen who can play big innings in times of difficulty for their team against any opposition on any pitch. A lot will depend on them but I think we shouldn't discard the younger lads so easily. Malik has been on the rise since Woolmer came and has performed brilliantly under him. He looks in good nick in AUS as well. Younis Khan is of course another one who can perform well in tests which he clearly showed with his century agaisnt WA. Butt, Farhat, Hameed are still establishing themselves in the team but according to Woolmer, "the good thing was they all were looking good!" in the 40 over ODI. They were of course bound to fail in the very first practise match as adjusting to new conditions isn't that easy.

The bowling attack is infact brilliant! Akhtar, Sami, Razzaq, Kaneria can be world beaters if they perform in tandum and Khalil has been very impressive with the ball. Akhtar has shown before that he can rip apart any batting line up in the world in his day (His days might be rare but who knows...). Sami hasn't been very consistent but seems to be back to his good old self after a good performance against SL and some very good bowling against WA. Razzaq has also being bolwing very well and has earned praise from Woolmer. Kaneria has also being in great form - showing his excellence against SL and against WA with 7 + wickets. The bowlers will of course have to be very consistent but I have no doubt that they can do that.

A miracle?...I think not. Just some hard work and concentration is needed!

[imaginarydiva]

Originally Posted by King Aragorn

I'm afraid I disagree here with you. Pakistan is certainly very unpredictable as you said - which means that when a good performance is expected from them, they let the fans down but also, when they are supposed to lose big time, they can put in a great performance as well...that's being unpredictable - it works both ways.


A miracle?...I think not. Just some hard work and concentration is needed!

Well said!
They have a top class batting line up with world class players like Inzy and Youhana and Razzaq is considered one of the best finishers in the One day form of the game.Their bowling is pretty good as well with the very unpredictable;neverthless Shoaib always a threat to any opposition.I dont see why they shouldnt succed in tests as well as ODIs.Its tough but not impossible.

[The Great DonTalon]

well pakistani players have never been much for concentration nor hard work..

[King Aragorn]

Originally Posted by The Great DonTalon

well pakistani players have never been much for concentration nor hard work..

If you have been following Pakistani cricket of recently, you would have come to realise that the lads are working very hard indeed. They are very motivated and are ready to learn. So I'm afraid I fully disagree with you there. The hard work can clearly be observed from many a thing:

1) Reduction in the number of extras by Pakistani bowlers
2) Increased competition for places in the side
3) Huge improvement in players like Malik, Afridi and others
4) Much more reliable batting (Although still not consistent enough) with Inzamam leading the way and the youngsters responding brilliantly
5) Noticable improvement in fitness and fielding standards

Regarding concentration...Inzamam, Youhana, Younis Khan in the batting department and Akhtar and Kaneria in the bowling are very reliable. The younger lads have shown great patience and concentration in both test matches and ODIs recently. For example...Pakistan had to chase some huge totals against SL in the Paktel Cup and against IND in Kolkatta but even the younger players exhibited great patience and led Pakistan to victory.

I think you might be dwelling a bit in the past (No offence meant here)...the newer team under Woolmer and Inzamam is keen on learning and performing for their country.

[Maranello]

Excellent comments KA, and very good arguments for backing our boys Down Under. To say that Pakistanis lack hard work now would be a travesty; the youngsters really are working hard, but despite the talent, one cannot expect them to become consistently good overnight. The improvement in the one-day arena is for all to see; if a world cup was held next month, I would submit that Pakistan would be joint favourites for that, regardless of whether it was held (as long as no matches were scheduled for the Rose Bowl or Cape Town!). If the world cup was held in the sub-continent or Sharjah, Pakistan would be the main favourites. This is primarily because the talent that has always been there has been very effectively harnessed by Woolmer in the past six months, and the obvious weaknesses (lack of strategy; poor planning; bad decisions making; too many no-balls; not sticking to the plan) have generally been rectified, with differing levels of success.

Sorting out the Test team will take much longer, simply because Tests are a much more intense 'test' of character and technique, and our youngsters lack both, due to the abysmally poor standard of our domestic cricket and local infrastructure. But give Woolmer some time back at home with the youngsters and no tours, and we will see worthwhile changes.

Histroically, Pakistan have not always been inconsistent. The team in the mid to late 1980s was arguably the best in ODIs and the joint best in Tests with the Windies, and Imran Khan achieved that by instilling mental toughness and exemplary consitency in the men. Imran himself was probably one of the hardest working Test cricketer of his era (not my words, since I wouldn't know; the testimony of various colleagues and opponents). For someone with so much natural talent, he worked very very hard on his fitness, his batting, his run-up, his technique, right till he retired at the ripe old age of 42!
So to say "pakistani players have never been much for concentration nor hard work" indicates rank ignorance.

Similarly, Miandad's concentration levels as a batsmen were legendary. He would participate in all sorts of mind games with the opposition, in fact sledge them as a batsmen to get the fielders and bowlers all riled up, and still manage to keep his own concentration perfectly. Viv Richards himself said that if he had to get someone to bat for his own life, it would be Miandad - does not suggest poor batting concentration to me! (Richards said this in the late 1980s, at a time when other batting greats included Gavaskar, Border, Gower, Greenidge, Haynes, Richards himself, Crowe et al).

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by The Great DonTalon

They also do not have wicket takers in their teams which are always need to get lads out.

I disagree; what are Shoaib Akhtar and Danish Kaneria if not out and out wicket takers? And by their records, both are pretty good at it too! Let me clarify what I mean by just a couple of facts about Shoaib:

Shoaib, despite his recent inconsistencies, is still the world's fourth best test bowler (PwC ratings, which are a good guide over time), and has consistently been there for the past 2 or 3 years.

The last time he played Australia in a Test, it was the Aussie batting line up that was taken apart, in the Colombo test between Pak and Aus in Oct 2002 (scorecard). In fact, he got more wickets than McGrath, Gillespie, Lee or Waqar in that match - and the first three had a much weaker batting line-up to work on!

His last international match in Aus was the one-dayer at Brisbane in June 2002 where he also took the Aussie batting line-up apart, and Pakistan won by 91 runs (they also won the series 2-1). Shoaib took 5 for 25 against a full strength team, coming in as first change: scorecard.

[Aussie-Youhana-fan]

As an aussie Pakistan fan and new to this forum, I would like to make a point from a different point of view. In full flight, Pakistan is the best team in the world to watch. NO DOUBT. The problem is, I don't think Pakistan has the allround team to beat Australia. I HOPE I'M WRONG!!!!

I feel that Inzamam, Youhana, Razzaq and Shoaib are going to have to play out of their skin, if Pakistan are going to be competitive. I don't think they have the batting strength to make consistant scores over 300 against Australia's attack, therefore, Pakistan's bowling is going to have to be consistant and tight. Early wickets will be a MUST. The W.A.C.A will be the hardest ground for them to play on. The bounce and pace of the wicket will be nothing like they normally play on, and going by their early form in Australia, they will likely struggle.
They will be far more competitive in the ODI's.

[Rachael]

Hmmmm. See http://live.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/...12DEC2004.html