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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-2004, 02:46 PM in reply to Zainub's post starting "I'm really so sick and tired of..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi
I have full faith in Woolmer, sooner or later, he's going to answer all his critics.
Well he's certainly got some very good raw materials to work with, as he had when he worked with the South Africans and he turned them into almost the best team in the world.
If he's given time to achieve, then he almost certainly will.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-2004, 02:53 PM in reply to Oliver's post starting "Well he's certainly got some very good..."
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Originally Posted by Oliver
Well he's certainly got some very good raw materials to work with, as he had when he worked with the South Africans and he turned them into almost the best team in the world.
If he's given time to achieve, then he almost certainly will.
Miandad himself admits that the lack of professionalism in Pakistan's 1st class cricket holds them back yet he expects results from Woolmer in a few months. When Woolmer was appointed I said then it would take at least 12 months to start seeing results. It's disappointing when former greats can't look beyond themselves at the greater picture, but not surprising.

I can't wait to go to India with a full strength team this year. that will be the real test of Woolmer's progress with a full squad to choose from. Australia has come too early and are too strong for us at this point. But with gul and Shabbir back for India I see a win on their turf as a real possibility.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-2004, 04:13 PM in reply to Shaka's post starting "Miandad himself admits that the lack of..."
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I agree that the timing for this tour has not been ideal, we would have not minded had it come same time next year, but we still might surprise a few people in the current situation.

With Pakistan, you never know, I'm fairly optimistic about our chances over all.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-2004, 04:22 PM in reply to Zainub's post starting "I agree that the timing for this tour..."
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I'm not optimistic at all Zainub,, at least not in the sense I think we can get a win. There's some ability in the batting line up but only two real class bats in Inzi and Youhanna. The rest have yet to show they have the application necesary to succeed against top class bowling abroad. Maybe the challenge will see them raise their game?

I look on this as more an opportunity for some of our younger players to make a mark and to see if we as a team can cause an upset. Nothing to lose and everything to gain. I think Gul and Shabbir with their height and lift would have been priceless in Australia though. On the tracks where they have had similar conditions (Peshawar) Umar Gul especially has looked the part!
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 02:10 PM in reply to Shaka's post starting "I'm not optimistic at all Zainub,, at..."
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This is an absolutely superb article - no idea who the writer is as he's using a pseudo name 'Silly Point' but he puts Maindad's anitcs well and truly in perspective. Really wonderwful read, it's a shame a lot of Pakistani fans are too bloody minded for it to register.It's from the PCB official site:

Putting things in perspective


Bob Woolmer and his Pakistan team are well and truly under the cosh. Not only are Australia pummelling them on the cricket field but at home the press, with some help from ex-coach Javed Miandad, are also joining in.
Clearly some of the criticism is warranted but may be misdirected. In the first innings at Perth apart from Yousuf Youhana and Inzamam-ul-Haq, all the other top order gifted their wickets away. Younis Khan, having played sensibly for his 42, inexplicably played the kind of shot reserved for the last over of a one-day game. Abdul Razzaq followed suit and it was left to fast bowlers Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammed Sami, to restore some semblance of respectability and put to shame the Pakistan batting.

Earlier, Imran Farhat did what we have come to expect from him - 2 nicks through the slips, one gorgeous drive for four and then a soft dismissal - all in the space of about 20 balls. At least his partner, Salman Butt, looked solid till undone by Michael Kasprowicz. Inzamam appears woefully out of touch - bowled in all three outings on tour - and Youhana - we are eternally waiting for the vice-captain to come good when it matters.

But led by Miandad, much of the criticism has been aimed at Pakistan's English coach, Bob Woolmer. Yet readers will remember the countless times that Miandad, as coach, absolved himself from any blame by stating if the players did not listen to him what was he to do! In that I agree with Miandad and so must Woolmer but instead of sympathising, Miandad has relished in criticising Woolmer.

But how can senior players like Younis Khan and Abdul Razzaq justify playing those shots? How, as a man who has played almost 100 Tests, can Inzamam explain that he still is unable to run his bat through the crease? How as vice-captain can Yousuf Youhana field with such an absence of basic cricketing common sense? It is incorrect to blame the coach in such circumstances and the schoolboy mistakes made by the players reek of their own lack of responsibility. But it is also in these areas that Woolmer needs to tighten up.

He has placed a considerable amount of trust in his team and with the exception of a few players this trust is not being adequately reciprocated. The Australian tour will separate the men from the boys very quickly and those not standing up should find themselves out of the team. It is essential that Woolmer look beyond the 15 players he has so far persisted with. If the current crop does not have the capacity to learn from their mistakes it is time to find those who do have the desire to learn and the will to succeed. The PCB has given the players all the support that could be expected - the finest coach in international cricket, a professional support team and the stability of central contracts. It is time the players themselves begin shaping up or shipping out.

Nevertheless, Miandad continues to play to the gallery by claiming that the 'laptop' coach does not understand the culture of Pakistan cricket. But it is this very culture that has today brought about a decline in cricket in Pakistan. In the past, Pakistan, like the West Indies in the 70s and 80s, had been able to rely on a stream of audaciously talented players. Unfortunately, players of the calibre of Wasim Akram, Saeed Anwar and Waqar Younis come once in a generation and now that they have retired, Pakistan finds it no longer has the luxury of relying purely on talent. If we continue to rely on the old culture of coaching we may well go the way of the West Indies.

In contrast consider the successful example of India. Maybe John Wright didn't understand the culture of cricket in India when he joined the team in 2000 but what he did understand was that it was essential for Indian cricket to change that culture and bring in a culture of professionalism, with the stress on hard work, fitness, modern techniques of coaching and mental toughness. Today they are clearly the second best team in the world with a powerful batting line up, quality spinners and a good, young pace attack. Their second string is also strongly showing the overall depth of India’s cricket. Pakistan must follow suit and by taking on Bob Woolmer they have taken a big stride in the right direction.

There is also a mis-perception that all that the current Pakistan team needs to become world beaters is some fine tuning. Miandad has gone on record to say that there is nothing wrong with the boys implying that it is entirely the fault of the coach - an about turn from the situation when he was coach.

This image of Pakistan being amongst the best teams in world cricket today is perpetuated by the general press - the countless times we are told Pakistan has an excessively talented team and were the selection better or the coach different or the hierarchy reined in, etc we would be ruling the world. Let me provide a couple of examples of how we have managed to lull ourselves believing in the inflated ability of our players.

At the ICC Awards in England, the Pakistan contingent felt hard done by when Irfan Pathan received young cricketer of the year rather than Yasir Hameed. Even more one-sided were the comments of one fan who stated proudly on a website that Imran Farhat and Yasir Hameed were in fact better players than Virender Sehwag and Rahul Dravid respectively. Irfan Pathan, by all accounts, is an outstanding prospect - a talent that may even one day match that of the great Wasim Akram. Yasir Hameed in contrast looks distinctly mediocre at present. As for Hameed and Farhat being better than Sehwag and Dravid....there is no comparison.

But putting aside superficial nationalistic sentiment and looking at the team with detachment it is clear that the current Pakistan team are not the team they are often made out to be.

Currently, more or less the best possible crop of players has been selected for the tour of Australia but they look hopelessly out of depth against the Australians. Put up a joint Pakistan-Australia team and you will find that with the exception of possibly Shoaib Akhtar and Inzamam-ul-Haq, no other Pakistan player would deserve a place.

Let's push this a bit further. Put up a joint Pakistan-India team and you are still likely to have only Inzamam and Shoaib in the team. Yet, back home, the Senate Committee continues to debate why Pakistan lost to India. Australia and India are both more talented and more professional outfits than Pakistan at the moment. Considering this, Pakistan have done exceptionally well against India over the last few months. But against Australia avoiding a 3-0 whitewash will be an achievement and we should certainly not start as anywhere near favourites when the India series begins next spring.

The current state of cricket in Pakistan is not something that is the outcome of the last year or two even. It is the result of years of neglect of the domestic game. In this sense the stress being put on the domestic and grassroots level by the PCB is possibly the most important long-term service that can be done for the general health of cricket in Pakistan.

But at present the fact that so many teams in the Quaid-e-Azam trophy have collapsed in the batting department does not necessarily point to the quality of the wickets - it indicates a much deeper malaise - that batting techniques have deteriorated to the extent that a wicket with a bit of pace and movement has local batsmen at sixes and sevens. After all the fact that Pakistan have been bundled out in Perth does not mean that the wicket is poor - just that our batsmen have not developed the technique or mental strength to cope with the conditions.

Miandad also states that cricket is a passion in Pakistan and that fans demand quick results. But the fact is that sadly, there are no shortcuts to success. It has to be worked at and earned and it will be hard work as much as talent that will see Pakistan develop as a team. All this will take time and will involve highs and lows. Pakistan cricket will need to stay focussed and maintain continuity. The fans will need to have some faith and patience.

John Wright took 4 years to build a strong Indian team. Duncan Fletcher even longer to bring England back into contention for the Ashes. Even Bobby Simpson took years to turn Australia's fortunes around in the mid 1980s. Woolmer needs an equally fair chance with the Pakistan team.

It is disappointing that Javed Miandad has decided to criticise Bob Woolmer and the team because he of all people will know what a Pakistan coach has to deal with. Moreover, the timing of the criticism is particularly disappointing - just as Pakistan prepare to take on the world's strongest team at a venue where they have lost heavily on each occasion. Kicking a man when he's down is unsporting and Miandad's comments are unlikely to serve any constructive purpose.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 02:37 PM in reply to Shaka's post starting "This is an absolutely superb article -..."
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Excellent article Shaka...good to see the PCB putting up sensible journalism on its website, as opposed to the usual tripe published, in particular, by the Karachi press!
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 03:48 PM in reply to Shaka's post starting "This is an absolutely superb article -..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaka
If we continue to rely on the old culture of coaching we may well go the way of the West Indies. In contrast consider the successful example of India. Maybe John Wright didn't understand the culture of cricket in India when he joined the team in 2000 but what he did understand was that it was essential for Indian cricket to change that culture and bring in a culture of professionalism, with the stress on hard work, fitness, modern techniques of coaching and mental toughness. Today they are clearly the second best team in the world with a powerful batting line up, quality spinners and a good, young pace attack. Their second string is also strongly showing the overall depth of India’s cricket. Pakistan must follow suit and by taking on Bob Woolmer they have taken a big stride in the right direction.
Absolutely spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaka
The current state of cricket in Pakistan is not something that is the outcome of the last year or two even. It is the result of years of neglect of the domestic game. In this sense the stress being put on the domestic and grassroots level by the PCB is possibly the most important long-term service that can be done for the general health of cricket in Pakistan.
Ditto. Not sure that's going to win plaudits in Pakistan if the national team keeps failing though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaka
John Wright took 4 years to build a strong Indian team. Duncan Fletcher even longer to bring England back into contention for the Ashes. Even Bobby Simpson took years to turn Australia's fortunes around in the mid 1980s. Woolmer needs an equally fair chance with the Pakistan team.
Time to see if the board has the stomach for the long haul: if they can stick WITH Woolmer that long then I don't doubt there will be progress.. but I wonder what the bookies would say on the chances of that....

Last edited by Rachael : 18-12-2004 at 03:58 PM.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 06:40 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Absolutely spot on. Ditto. Not sure..."
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Actually the PCB have been 100% supportive of Woolmer, so much so that it obviously irks the likes of Miandad who never got maybe as much backing (rightly so). The Pakistan fans also are pretty much behind Bob as is pretty evident from the volume of questions he gets on his web site, although how long that would last if things didn't move forward is debatable.

The problem at the moment is the Pakistani sports press, some of whom get itchy fingers if they haven't had anything spicy to report for more than a week and former players and coaches who obviously feel slighted by the appointment of a foreign coach.

One aspect of the article which rings true is the observation that in Pakistan there is an inflated opinion of the team's ability. Pakistan has had one of the worst batting line ups of the leading test teams for some time now, but the public still expects results beyond their capacity. Not that they are as bad as they have looked in Perth...the batting is light and by the time we go to India the pace attack will be considerably strengthened. If Taufeeq Umar can be brought back into the side as an opener with tremendous grit and determination - qualities very lacking in one or two of our batsmen - things will improve.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 07:17 PM in reply to Shaka's post starting "Actually the PCB have been 100%..."
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I'm sure things wil improve if Woolmer get's a long enough run, Shaka... it's just that (as the report suggests) a decent run is likely to mean 4+ years.. and I'm not sure the domestic press are going to be keen to save their rants until that time has passed :-)
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-2004, 09:04 PM in reply to Rachael's post starting "I'm sure things wil improve if Woolmer..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
[...]it's just that (as the report suggests) a decent run is likely to mean 4+ years.. and I'm not sure the domestic press are going to be keen to save their rants until that time has passed :-)
And that is very unfortunate. Shaharyar Khan has had to defend Woolmer every now and then. He has taken a very firm stand by supporting Woolmer and Inzamam against all odds - against former players like Sarfraz Nawaz, columnists/journalists like Salahuddin (Dawn) and Waheed Khan (The News) and the Senate committe lead by Enver Baig. It is very rare indeed for the president of Pakistan Cricket Board to do this. Hopefully he will continue his support for Woolmer so that Woolmer can bring further continuity in the side and side by side work to improve cricket at grass root level as well with his innovative ideas.

I miss Ramiz Raja as PCB's CEO - he is a very educated man and I am sure he would have stood strong against all these attacks to quite an extent.
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