Pakistan's Batting

[Shaka]

Rachael, i don't think the discussion is about this test match in isolation. Pakistan has had problems for some time now with the quality of it's batsmen. Seems like the one's who have the talent, don't have the desire or the discipline. The one's who have the desire or discipline don't have the talent. Or at least that's how it seems to unfold.

Only two players have emerged in the last couple of years for me who even look like they are setting their stall out to build a proper test innings, and that's Taufeeq Umar and Asim Kamal. Salman Butt is still very new but he is definitely going about it the right way, he has curbed a lot of his shots in order to make an impact. Woolmer's handling of him was perfect - when he was making 20's and 30's Woolmer would leave him out next game, no matter how well he had played and this definitely led to him knuckilng down against the Sri Lankans and culminated in a century in Calcutta.

This approach has been tried with Yasir Hameed too with limited success. He looks uncomfortable when he's asked to play more watchfully.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Shaka

Rachael, i don't think the discussion is about this test match in isolation. Pakistan has had problems for some time now with the quality of it's batsmen. Seems like the one's who have the talent, don't have the desire or the discipline. The one's who have the desire or discipline don't have the talent. Or at least that's how it seems to unfold.

I'm sympathetic.. but equally.. Strauss has just come into Test cricket aged 27 with STACKS of experience and a good head on his shoulders. GO Jones is the same age and just being tested. Key started too young, failed, and is now coming back as a more mature player. Flintoff started younger, but was 26 before he really started finding his way.

Taufeeq Umar is not yet 24.. so if (as you say) he's showing application already there's a decent chance he'll be ready by 27. Asim Kamal is older (28, I believe) and if he's showing SOME application then I'm not sure even that's too late: Mark Richardson has just retired as the most adhesive (and successful) opening batsmen in world cricket (world top 10 player, contender for any world XI)... and I'm pretty sure he was a number XI bat in his early 20s.. and he only made the Test team as an opener aged 29.

You say Yasir Hameed has shown little application as yet.. and I must admit that at 27 he should really have started to show SOME improvement.. but equally... with the first class domestic cricket structure that's in place in Pakistan.. and the dire state of the coaching in the recent past.. I'd even give Woolmer a chance with him.

SAlman Butt, as you say, is an entirely different proposition. What I'd love to see is him packed off to the Lancashire leagues.. or (in the English winter) to grade cricket in Australia. I'd like to see Woolmer do a deal with the Pakistan newspapers such that they only get to talk to team members if they refuse to print anything unauthorised on Salman Butt. I'd like to see the kid (who is, after all, just 20) try and make his way in the highly professional world of Australian or English 1st class cricket.

I fear, however, that hes another who's going to learn his trade in the Test match arena.. and in the full glare of the media spotlight.. which strikes me as just plain wrong.


I don't see anything wrong with the batting prospects that Woolmer can't fix... as I'm damn sure he can pretty much manufacture Test level players from ANY talented prospect who has the right attitude... and I'm quite confident that with so many promising youngsters around.. he'll find enough who will respond as he wants.

Just a matter of time, really.

ps. Have you ever compared Steve Waugh's first 8 or so years in Test cricket (up until he was something like 29) with the second half of his career (I think he retired at 37)? First half was very, very ordinary: a couple of bright spots in a quite undistinguished list. When recalled (he'd been dropped) he was a man transformed: perhaps a more valuable middle order batsmen than even more talented players like his brother, SRT, Lara and Inzi. Just took time :-)

[Beny]

How many of the wickets yesterday were a result of the batsmen hanging his bat outside off stump? Far too many.

On top of that you have a team full of stroke makers who don't know how to go back into their shell when it really matters. Disciplne and shot selection, are what Woolmer needs to be working on.

[Shaka]

You raise a very valid point Rachael, Pakistan seems to have an aversion to blooding batsmen who are past a certain age. a lot of guys get thrown in at the deep end very inexperienced and it's a case of sink or swim. When I see Strauss batting I'm amazed that this guy took so long to make the test team. He is so composed and correct it's unfathomable he wasn't making big runs earlier in his career. I'll be interested to see if Farhat keeps his place in the next match or whether Yasir hameed comes in. Both are great stroke players, both are equally as likely to get out when set as they are at the beginning of an innings.

Beny, Pakistani batsmen are very bad at leaving the ball outside their off stump. They can get away with it in Pakistan but were always going to hit trouble in Perth. I keep banging on about Taufeeq Umar, but he is absolutely brilliant at it which is unusual for a Pakistani opener. Against South Africa (both home and away) he was prepared to go scoreless for the first 15 overs so long as he was still there when the shine was off. After that he would reap the pay off. Very unusual discipline for a Pakistani batsmen...which isn't to say he didn't have a flawless technique. He got bowled round his legs a couple of times when he started to shuffle across his stumps too far, but his application and grit were a big feature against SA.

[Zainub]

I'm with you on your praise of Taufeeq Umar.

The things you say about him shuffling across his crease to get bowled (usually leg stump going off)...that too was because of the heaps of undue criticism loaded on him for not scoring quickly enough...I hope we bring him back to the fold soon.

[Shaka]

You are probably right about the pressure to score quickly causing that flaw in Taufeeq Zainub. I know he was keen to break into the ODI team and prove himself in that format because he wasn't being considered. It's ridiculous really because he has a fine array of shots, but his reputation of digging in in test matches probably worked against him. I have no doubt he'll be back in the side soon, and whether he succeeds immediately or not he should be our no 1 opener IMO. I remember only too well in South Africa when Pollock, Ntini and co were going through our top order at will, Taufeeq was the one guy who stood up and was counted. Considering the displays of this batting line up in Australia has been accused of being spineless, his qualities would have been all the more use here. Excellent slip fielder too.

[vvvrulz]

I fully agree. And the batting was somewhat woeful, we must keep in mind however that its never easy for any sub-continent team to front up in Perth. And chasing 500 odd, one can see why they folded so quickly.

Taufeeq and Yasir Hameed are two exclusions I just don't understand.

[Shaka]

Yasir Hameed I can understand why he was left out. He has a careless attitude to preserving his wicket and plays shots away from his body. What he has got going for him is self-confidence which isn't a bad thing to have in Perth.

[vvvrulz]

Exactly, I am reminded of Lou Vincent's 104 on debut, he went out there with a careless attitude that day.

Imran has the tendency to give away his wicket too.

[imaginarydiva]

I really think Yasser Hameed and Imran farhat have what it takes to make it back to the team,considering that current batsmen's form hasnt been fantastic....