Is Kaneria the best of the new generation of spinners?

[Nikhil]

Hi Andy,

Well Danish Kaneria is one of the better young spinners around, but there are a few who would give him run for the money. Two names that spring quickly to my mind are Harbhajan Singh from India and Stuart McGill of the aussies.

Agewise, Bhajan is younger, but may have played more tests than Kaneria (haven't checked the stats). Stuart McGill may not be as young, but he certainly has not played many tests, and therefore I included him under this category.

Also I think Ray Price, Daniel Vettori Rafique (may have spelled wrong) and Ashley Giles are pretty decent spinners. The interesting point to note is, the former three are wrist spinners, while the latter are finger spinners.

I think it would be more suitable to make separate categories for finger and wrist spinners, since those two differ so much.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Nikhil

Agewise, Bhajan is younger, but may have played more tests than Kaneria (haven't checked the stats). Stuart McGill may not be as young, but he certainly has not played many tests, and therefore I included him under this category.

No Harbhajan Singh is six months older than Kaneria (Kaneria is not yet 24, Singh is 24). More relevantly, Singh has played 42 tests to Kaneria's 20. Hence, for my money, Singh has arrived; he has been on the scene for a long time, and has had a decent career in terms of numbers of Tests. I never think of him as a newbie, and so he does not form an answer to this question. Moreover, Singh made his debut over six years ago - hardly a newcomer!

Kaneria has not been around for that long, has not been a regular in the team till recently, and is definitely an unknown quantity - hence he qualifies as someone from the new generation. He made his debut 4 years ago, but his 20 tests have been spread over many series, hence the anonymity.

MacGill is 33 - hardly the next generation! Has also played 32 Tests, and the fact that he could not even make the squad for the India tour indicates how low down the pecking order he is in Australia. I would submit that we will not see a lot of MacGill, at least not compared to Kaneria.

If we are going to include MacGill and Singh as the "new generation" might as well include Saqlain Mushtaq, he is not 28 yet, ie much younger than MacGill, and has played 49, ie only seven more Tests than Singh! Clearly, no one thinks of Saqi as the new generation, and rightly so...same should be the case with Singh - he is an established international level cricketer. Kaneria is not.

Hence, Kaneria is the best of the new generation of spinners, but obviously there are some excellent (and other not so excellent) established guys already around, eg Singh, Vettori, Giles, et al

[Andy Mellon]

Erm. Vettori can't be included in the next generation either. He made his test debut in 1996! That's eight years of test cricket! Hardly a newcomer at the age of 26 and 59 matches. If you exclude Harbajan, then you have to exclude Vettori. Similar with Giles. He's over 30. Ray Price is also fairly old. Also, Rafique is 34!

So, if we put the criteria as spinners under 25 with less than 25 caps.... That gives you Kaneria. Also, wasn't there a Bangladeshi Slow Left Arm spinner Enamul Haque Jr. According to Cricinfo, he's only 18 with 3 caps (6 wickets @ 57.16 average)

Zainub: For the Who's Who book, try looking on the Wisden Cricshop around January time. That's when it comes out. Unfortunately, its a Who's Who of English County Cricketers - of which Danish was one this year! There's bound to be an international one somewhere though!

[Maranello]

Andy, I never included Vettori et al as newcomers...my comment was:

Originally Posted by Maranello

Kaneria is the best of the new generation of spinners, but obviously there are some excellent (and other not so excellent) established guys already around, eg Singh, Vettori, Giles, et al

Agree with your definition criteria of 25 years and 25 Tests, sound eminently sensible to me...

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Maranello

Andy, I never included Vettori et al as newcomers...

Fair enough! Still - are there any options other than Kaneria and Haque? In the UK, there's a derth of spinners at the moment. The only guy I can think of is Mark Lawson from Yorkshire (I think), the new English leg spin prospect. I think he's about 18 - but he's only played a couple of first class games. The England setup won't draft him in too soon after what happened to the previous prospects (Schofield and Salisbury) who were both very poor.

I'm guessing that there are a lot of spinning prospects in the subcontinent. I then thought of that Indian spinner Kartik. But I was surprised to learn from cricinfo that he's 28 (8 tests)

Are there any other spinners out there?

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

Zainub: For the Who's Who book, try looking on the Wisden Cricshop around January time. That's when it comes out. Unfortunately, its a Who's Who of English County Cricketers - of which Danish was one this year! There's bound to be an international one somewhere though!

Thanks for that Andy, hopefully they'll publish or think of publishing a one for international cricketers coming year too.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

Are there any other spinners out there?

Full name: Nathan Michael Hauritz
Born: 18 October 1981, Wondai, Queensland
Present Age: 23y 56d
Age at Test Debut : 23y 16d - 23y 18d
Bowling Style:Right Arm Off Break
Tests: 1
ODIs 8

Profile here

[Maranello]

There's SL's Herath, not sure how old he is, but a good prospect.

India I am sure have others in their domestic system, after their first-choice three who are all established internationals now (even Kartik).
Pakistan have a couple of young 'uns, including young Mansoor Amjad, the spinner selected in the WAT Pakistan-A team.

[Nikhil]

Below 25, and should have played less than 25 tests. Hmm. Looks like Kaneria is going to win the one-man race then. Easy for him, if you ask me .

There are hardly any spinners up and coming (or atleast I don't know any promising one's). Herath may be one. But, I have no clue about him.

[Shaka]

Hi Andy,

yes, IMO Danish Kaneria is the best emerging young spinner out there today. As a leggie the biggest weapon you can have is a leg-break that turns sharply and the next best is height and bounce. Danish has the tools, now he just needs to learn how to hone them. If he could add a Shane Warne dipper (ironically a ball which Warne was taught by Qadir) he'd be a real handful. I really have hig hopes of him though.