Is Kaneria the best of the new generation of spinners?

[Maranello]

Aus v Pak, Day 3, pre-lunch:

The commentators (Benaud & Chappell at the mo) are impressed with Kaneria, despite him taking no wickets. They are also impressed with his attitude. Benaud quotes Gooch, who knows Kaneria from Essex: "Anyone who works as hard as Kaneria does in between games deserves, and will get success"

[Realcharm]

uuumm of young spinners....
nathan hauritz, cam white, murali karthik ....not a lot actually .... that i noe of

yes i tink hes good ...he has the killer instinct like pathan ...although pathan has the ebst killer instinct.....i recn hes the next kumble which is a big call but the way he plays is like kumble.....

[redback]

he bowled brillantly today against the aussies i think his figures were 7/188

[Seamer]

He just brought up his 100th test wicket after 23 tests - Warne brought up his 100th wicket in his 23rd test as well. We might knock over Warnes record if he keeps that up

[Andy Mellon]

He really is proving his worth to Pakistan! He's certainly performed well above even my biased expectations in Australia. I mean, these aren't exactly the best conditions for spin bowling and the Aussies should be well versed in facing such bowling when they presumably get net practise from Warne a lot of the time.

However, I think Kaneria's success really highlights the current derth of fast bowling for Pakistan when compared to their best teams. Pakistan have always built success on having two premier, aggresive, wicket taking fast bowlers and then a very good spinning option to back them up. Think Waqar, Wasim and Mushtaq Ahmed/Saqlain. I expected Shoaib and Sami to take on Waqar and Wasim's mantles, but to be perfectly honest - they are nowhere near as consistent or dangerous as Waqar and Wasim. You always knew that if you were facing Wasim and Waqar you would not get an easy ball to score off, and whilst Shoaib and Sami occassionally have spells like that, they do not achieve this standard nearly as often as they need to. There isn't a much better sight for a fan of fast bowling than seeing Shoaib firing on all cylinders, but really we need to see this more often. I'm sure you don't want Kaneria facing early burn-out due to having to shoulder 80 overs a match!

What can be done about this? Are Shoaib and Sami merely off form at the moment, or do Pakistan need some young fast bowlers (Gul, Navad-ul-Hasan) challenging them for their places to ensure that they have to perform at a consistently high standard?

EDIT: I've just read that Kaneria's been fined his whole match fee for 'launching into a verbal tirade' after dismissing Michael Clarke. In my opinion, this isn't really much of a problem as long as such behaviour is kept in check by appropriate punishments - I believe it shows that he really wants to get the wickets and is committed 110% to helping his team win. However, how will this be perceived in Pakistan?

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

What can be done about this? Are Shoaib and Sami merely off form at the moment, or do Pakistan need some young fast bowlers (Gul, Hasan) challenging them for their places to ensure that they have to perform at a consistently high standard?

Perceptive comments Andy. Shoaib is not off-form, in fact is in very good form, but his poor fitness lets him down. He nearly always "breaks down" during Tests, and never completes a series. Even when fully fit, he can only be used in short bursts, so the other guys need to step up to the plate, and be the perfect holding bowlers, who can maintain the pressure. Umar Gul and Shabbir are the two main hopes in this. Sami has been tried many times and has always been found wanting. Due to lack of options, Pakistan may well persist with him in the India tour, but that tells its own story.

[Zainub]

,

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

EDIT: I've just read that Kaneria's been fined his whole match fee for 'launching into a verbal tirade' after dismissing Michael Clarke. In my opinion, this isn't really much of a problem as long as such behaviour is kept in check by appropriate punishments - I believe it shows that he really wants to get the wickets and is committed 110% to helping his team win. However, how will this be perceived in Pakistan?

From BBC Sports: Gilchrist paid tribute to Pakistan leg-spinner Danish Kaneria, who bore the brunt of the workload and returned figures of 7-188. "Fortunately someone has got in and ridden him long enough to produce the runs, but he has an extremely good wrong 'un and he's got a lot of courage. "He tempts guys, takes them on and he always has a chance of taking wickets," Gilchrist added.

Kaneria's haul was the perfect response after being docked his entire match fee the previous day for verbally abusing Australia's Michael Clarke. "I'm very sorry for that. I didn't mean to say it because he's a very good guy and a friend. I didn't mean it but it was just the excitement in my mind," he said. Kaneria now has 101 wickets from 23 Test appearances and has set himself a tough target for the remainder of his career [incidently Warnie also completed 100 test wickets in his 23rd test , and coincidentially he too was playing at the SCG that time]."I just want to make my name as the world's greatest leg-spinner. That's my aim." He has a long way to go to overhaul the world record of Australia's Shane Warne, who has 562 wickets to his credit. "I will do my very best to become better than him," said Kaneria. "When I was young, I was never scared. My coach told me you should not be frightened - if you are not frightened of your own bowling being hit all over the ground, then you will be alright."I have a very big heart. I just want to bowl."

[Shaka]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

EDIT: I've just read that Kaneria's been fined his whole match fee for 'launching into a verbal tirade' after dismissing Michael Clarke. In my opinion, this isn't really much of a problem as long as such behaviour is kept in check by appropriate punishments - I believe it shows that he really wants to get the wickets and is committed 110% to helping his team win. However, how will this be perceived in Pakistan?

It will be perceived as utter bull**** considering both Gillespie and McGrath weren't even questioned regarding their verbal tirades in the first test match.

[Maranello]

Even in the current Test Shane Watson was openly abusing Afridi, maybe not as loud as Kaneria, but still obvious. There needs to be consistency in the application of these rules, maybe the match referee needs to be more proactive. At the moment, the penalties handed out to Akhtar and Kaneria this series look farcical when one sees what the Aussies get away with on a daily basis, and have done for a long while.

[Andy Mellon]

Bit of a shame he didn't get a 10 wicket haul in the end. The Pakistan batsmen should have set the Aussies a bit of a sterner target - 150 odd. Would have been interesting to see how Australia would do if they tried to swashbuckle their way to 150. After all, that's how they lost in the final test vs India, wasn't it!

Still, I've been impressed by Kaneria on this tour. I'm hoping he can come out with all guns blazing for Essex come April!