Is Kaneria the best of the new generation of spinners?

[Andy Mellon]

Hi there! I thought I should start a thread on my favourite Pakistan player, Danish Kaneria.

Firstly, he's my favourite Pakistan player because last season he played for my county in England who are called Essex and he was by far our leading wicket taker. We also won significantly more matches when Danish was available to play for us.

As a result, I thought I'd pose a couple of questions to our Pakistani membership about young Danish.

Firstly, do you think he's currently the best young spinner in the world? If not, who is there to rival him from Pakistan, or indeed other countries?

As I understand it, Danish Kaneria is not a muslim. How do Pakistanis view having a non-muslim as a key player in their team? Is this a good thing for cultural diversity or will it mean that he is given less lee-way for having a couple of poor performances?

Finally, what other young and up and coming talents are there in Pakistan that have yet to be launched onto the international cricket scene and do you think that playing domestic cricket in the UK is key to Pakistani players being a success (notable stars of the county scene in the past have included Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Mohammed Akram, Salim Malik, Mushtaq Ahmed, Abdur Razzaq and many, many more)

[Zainub]

I'm really pleased knowing your thoughts Andy. I really am, nice to know Kaneria has fans away from Pakistan as well. You ask some very good questions. I'll try and answer as many as I can, one by one.

Firstly is he the best young spinner in the world? Difficult to argue if he's not the best young leg spinner in the world, although slightly more tougher to say he's the best young spinner over all. Simply because there seems to be very little competition from any one else. Australia have Cameron White waiting in the wings, whom I have heard a lot about but unfortunately not seen at all so can't say if he's better or equal to Kaneria. Other than that I haven't heard of the other test playing countries producing any good leg spinners, may be some one can tell us if they know. There do seem to be however quite a few slow left armers (Gary Keedy for England, Ranagana Herath for Sri Lanka and Murali Karthik for India) and offies (Nathan Hauritz for Australia, Gareth Batty for England) popping up here and there. May be there are others out there too but we haven't seen enough of anyone to cast a judgment.

On the Pakistani front, there is no question about it, he's the most promising leg spinner we have come up with since Abdul Qadir, who Kaneria admits to have been inspired from. 87 wickets in just 20 tests is a stat that speaks for it self. And I know nearly half of those wickets have come against Bangladesh, but it doesn't take anything away from how well he has bowled for us off late. We have two other guys namely Hidayatullah Khan and Mansor Amjad in our sights as well (both were a part of our world cup winning under 19 squads) but both are now very young (both aged not more than 20), and have played only a handful of first class matches. With Kaneria having done so well off late there is no question of them getting a chance with the senior side, unless God forbid Kaneria experiences a dramatic loss of form. Mansor Amjad by the way is also a member of our WAT Pakistan A team, and was a unanimous choice by all the selectors, preferred over Khan because he was taller and also because Khan was reported for his action during the U-19 WC, and might need some remedial work on it.

On the question about him not being a Muslim, I've never understood it really why this springs up as a question to so many on lookers. I've answered similar questions on Yousuf Youhanna (who's a roman catholic by the way) as well. It just surprises me. I guess it is down to the fact that very few non Muslims have played for Pakistan, the ratio is much lesser as compared to the number of non-christians/jew/hindus in other teams. In fact Kaneria is just the second Hindu ever to represent Pakistan, the only other was his cousin Anil Dalpat who was at some point in time our wicket keeper for a short while. In actual fact though it has no bearing what so ever on selection issues and amongst the fans too it’s hardly ever talked about. Recently his marriage gained substantial coverage in some local tabloids - an indication that Kaneria is a fairly popular member of our team. Speaking of cultural diversity I doubt if there ever has been a time before when there are so many Pakistanis from different backgrounds involved in the team set up, apart from Youhanna and Kaneria we even have a fast bowler by the name of Stephen John who is regular in his domestic team i.e. Quetta.

Finally to your last question, about up and coming talents we simply have too many too, we've discussed this in depth in our selection of the A team, please have a look at that here. On the subject of our players playing county cricket, with the advent of central contracts I think the bigger names are less likely to be playing county cricket from now on, but seeing the positive effect it has seemingly had over our players like Shoaib Malik (Gloustershire) and Kaneria (Essex) I'd not have any problems what so ever with more of the younger brigade playing in England. Some one like Yasir Hameed in particular could certainly do with a season or two in English conditions, which would toughen him up, and expose him to a professional set up and demands he has not been as familiar with before. In fact the impression I have been getting reading his statements on and off in local papers here is that he's been looking for an opportunity to get a contract, a suitable one just hasn't arrived up till now.

[Maranello]

I don't know if he has the most potential of all the young spinners around, as I am sure there are many out there I have never even heard of, let alone seen. But Kaneria certainly is the one who has achieved the most to date, both in terms of his Test record and his wickets in the County Championship.

Whether he goes on to greatness from here is the key question, and one which no one can answer. He is definitely not the best Pakistani leggie since Qadir, since little Mushy (Mushtaq Ahmed) had as much promise and potential as Kaneria at the early stage of his career. It did fizzle out later on, and the same can happen to Kaneria. Kaneria could become the next Qadir, or he could meander into mediocrity as so many young and talented Pakistani cricketers eventually do!

The Hindu thing is not even an issue, just like Hussin's being Indian was not an issue in England. There might be some die-hards in Pakistan for whom players' ethnicity is an issue, just like in England, Yorkshire CCC have the reputation amongst British Asians for being the most negative in their attitude to race and multi-culturalism.

However, Pakistan's current vice-captain is a christian, and given the tiny percentages of non-Muslims living in Pakistan, two out eleven non-Muslim cricketers in our Test XI is pretty good going, and does not smack of any discrimination either way.

Kaneria is only 24 and has a long way to go; spinners don't reach their best till their late 20s, and according to Woolmer, Kaneria has a lot to learn but has all the right tools, and in a few years could develop into something very very special.

[Zainub]

You're right about him not being the best since Qadir, I completely forgot about Mushy. That should have been "most promising leggie since Mushtaq Ahmed". Point taken.

ps: just check out Kaneria's player page at cricket info, they say he's also known as Nani-Danny, Andy, is that a nick name that's come from his essex team mates?

[Maranello]

Some older discussion on Kaneria in this forum can be read here.

Some extracts from that thread:

Originally Posted by Danish Kaneria in Interview

"Even when I was growing up I always admired Abdul Qadir a lot and wanted to be a leg-spinner only. I have always looked up to him. And I have studied his videotapes closely. When I started playing top-level cricket, Mushtaq Ahmed helped and encouraged me in the Pakistan camps. He gave me a very important lesson that a leg-spinner always has to be confident and sure of himself at any level against any batsman," Kaneria said.

Originally Posted by Maranello

Looking at his record, 87 wickets in 20 Tests at an average of 28 is great, but then, 34 of those wickets are in five Tests against Bangladesh (at average of 16!). He has had two match winning performances apart from Bangladesh, the SL Test today, and test against SA last year when he took a 5-for. Don't know how he will perform outside Pakistan, but am definitely looking forward to it.

And finally, some comments from cricinfo (full article can be read here):

Originally Posted by cricinfo

He is unusual among a breed that defies convention: what is, after all, a normal legspinner? Tall and gangly, although his frame has filled out a little, Kaneria's action is all freewheeling arms and often it looks ungainly. When he runs in the field, he can be Bambi-esque, but his height ensures that he can extract bounce – a valuable currency for any legspinner to possess – on most pitches. In addition, he has developed enviable control since his debut, and as he pinned down the Sri Lankans in a tireless spell between lunch and tea, he further hauled back their run rate, after dismissing Jayasuriya in the morning.

As much as the bounce and turn – and it can be substantial – it is his attitude that is heartening. He is permanently enthusiastic – sometimes overtly so, as he was when he appealed for a brief period on almost every ball - but he doesn't easily tire, mentally or physically. Every ball he sends down, you sense, he wants and expects a wicket, and if it doesn't come, then there is always the next ball. And many balls didn't conjure a wicket for him in the afternoon session, but he didn't lose heart. He knew perhaps that he could produce, as he did, a spell of three wickets in 26 balls after tea.

He may not have the variations, or the mystery about him, that Qadir or Mushtaq did, and he doesn't flight the ball as much either. But by leading a depleted and inexperienced attack in a game that needed something special from him, he not only put Pakistan on the brink of victory, he also proved that like them, he too can be a matchwinner. And maybe, just maybe, he can be a proud inheritor of a wonderful legacy.

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

ps: just check out Kaneria's player page at cricket info, they say he's also known as Nani-Danny, Andy, is that a nick name that's come from his essex team mates?

According to my 2004 cricketers Who's Who book, Nani-Danny was his nickname at the start of this season - i.e. prior to bowling a single ball for Essex - so I doubt its a nickname they came up with. Is there anyway that he could be contacted and asked as it is an intreguing nickname?

[Maranello]

Danny is the nickname used by his Pakistan team mates, and its origins are obvious given his first name is Danish. Nanny-Danny seems to be some form of play on Danny... no clue why though. The easiest way to ask would be to put forth a question on Woolmer's website, he answers every few days.

[Zainub]

Thanks for that idea Maranello, I've just dropped in a message at Woolmers website. Hopefully he'll reply.

[Andy Mellon]

I decided to do a bit of research (posted on the Essex forum) about what the players at Essex called Danish. Apparently, he was given the nickname Smokey because he... erm.. smokes! Another original nickname from the English players there!

[Zainub]

That's some good knowledge Andy. By the way, the book you talked about earlier, cricketers Who's Who book, is there any way you could tell me who the publishers are, and if I can have a look at any online reviews available and possibly contemplate buying the 2005 version if there is one suppose to come out. I'll greatly appreciate that.

ps: no replys from Woolmer still, will post here if any developements are made