Pakistan vs India, Feb-March 2005, Preseries Build Up Thread

[bevo]

Salman
Farhat
Younis
Youhana
Inzi
Shoaib Malik (if he can bowl or even if he cant bowl)
Abdul Razzaq
Akmal
Shoaib
Rana
Kaneria
------------------
Sami

Rana is the heart and sole of pakistan cricket , the team should be around him and inziman , both have hit good form in ODI and now should carry into test , sami should be dropped for Rana , or drop razzaq/malik and swap with sami

[Zainub]

I'm not sure Farhat will be picked, in all likelihood we'll either go with Umar-Butt combination or Hameed-Butt combination.

Also there is a good chance we might not pick both Malik and Razzaq, some how I think Asim Kamal (remember he played in the 3rd test at Sydney and almost got a hundred batting with Afridi and the tail) deserves to retain his place, perhaps ahead of Malik, especially if he is unable to bowl. This is a delima we have. Two very good batsmen, I can't decide actually what my first choice eleven should be, am I also confused about Rana Naved-ul-Hasan and Sami.

I'm not happy though that it still isn't clear if Malik is allowed to bowl or not. That uncertainity does not help the job of the selectors. He had a car accident and because of that he is unable to straighen his arm completely. Why should that take so long to understand?

[Maranello]

Some interesting thoughts there Bevo, I am not sure I would play both Malik and Razzy together, one of them, maybe, but two 'bits and pieces' players in a Test team is too much! Tests are for specialists.

Before we get down to debating the final XI for the first Test, which, lets face it, will change many times between now and the 4th of March, let's concentrate on discussing and selecting the 16 member squad (due to be announced on the 19th). My 16 for the squad will be:

Openers/1 down batsmen
1. Salman Butt
2. Taufeeq Umar
3. Imran Farhat
4. Yasir Hameed
5. Younis Khan

Middle-order batsmen
6. Inzamam-ul-Haq
7. Yousaf Youhana
8. Asim Kamal
9. Shoaib Malik

Bowlers
10. Shoaib Akhtar
11. M. Sami
12. Rana Naved-ul-Hasan
13. Danish Kaneria
14. Arshad Khan
15. Shahid Nazir
16. Rao Iftikhar Anjam

Wicket-keeper
17. Kamran Akmal

Comments:
The key ommission is Shahid Afridi, it has been reported that he has ruled himself out of the Test series due to some personal/family reasons, but will be around by the time the one-dayers starts. An obvious ommission is Abdul Razzaq; however, I do not think he is good enough as a bowler or as a batsman to play Tests, and in his latest updates, Woolmer seems to agree. Add to that his weakness against spin, and he becomes a liability batting at no.6 or no.7. Of course, Razzy is one of the most valuable one-day players around in the world right now, and is, I believe, an automatic selection for a ODI World XI.

Another ommission is Shabbir Ahmed. With Akhtar's fitness being a perennial worry, I feel we cannot select two half-fit, or recently fit fast bowlers. After such a lengthy lay-off, Shabbir will probably not be match-fit, and Rao has done enough in the one-dayers to merit a place in the Test squad. He can bowl decent line and length, has control, and gets good movement with the new ball. Shabbir does get very good bounce, but will he have the pace and the control after such a long period not bowling? I doubt it.

If Akhtar is not fit enough to be selected (a remote possibility), then Shabbir should go in. Sami's place in the squad is automatic if he is fit, considering the paucity of good alternatives. However, he will not be in my first XI for the first Test. Rana is an automatic choice for the squad and for the XI; he is the one player with real heart, and can be the workhorse alternative to Sami's show-pony. He was the heart and soul of the team in Australia, and his confident will be high after such a good tour. Shahid Nazir made his debut 6 or 7 years ago, but was never selected again. Is a good swing bowler with decent pace, and has been doing very well in the domestic circuit. Should be tried out, as Khalil and/or Asif, the two new pacers tried in Australia, were not quite there yet.

Arshad Khan is another tried and tested (and discarded) performer. A right-arm off-spinner, he has been doing excellently domestically, and with Saqlain still unfit and woefully short of match practice, Arshad is the best off-spinner in the country. We cannot go to India with just one proper spinner in Kaneria; need at least two in the squad, if not three. As we know, the first test is at Mohali, the most seaming wicket in India, and one of the most pace-friendly in the subcontinent. For that Test, we need to play three fast bowlers and Kaneria; however, for the rest of the matches we might feel that the bowling attack should include both Arshad Khan and Kaneria.

Most of the other squad selections are automatic. The only question mark is Imran Farhat, and if the actual touring squad is 16 as opposed to the 17 we took to Australia, he would be the one I would drop, despite his good record of opening in the sub-continent, both against India and other teams. Asim Kamal is an automatic choice at number six, and with Shoaib Malik still unable to bowl, he might end up with the drinks duty. Woolmer, in the detailed update on his website, did sound reasonably hopefuly about Malik being allowed to bowl at some stage. I doubt though that it will be before 4th March. Hence, young Malik goes as a batsman only, and not a bad one at that.

[Zainub]

Good post M. Well expressed, although I do disagree in one or two respects.

I said earlier we might be tempted to pick Arshad Khan, he has as I said earlier too, been in good form right through out the season, and picking up a lot of wickets. But I don't think that just because we are playing in India and they pick 2 spinner in their team and pitches there are always supposedly good for spinners, that we should be tempted to pick him in the final eleven by default. In the squad, well ok, I don't mind that, as a matter of fact I suppor that, but he should be far from an automatic selection for the eleven.

In the recent past teams that have been successful in India have resisted the temptation to pack load their teams with spinning options, but in fact both only picked one genuine spinner, and the damage had been done by their superior pace attack then India. I do think Imran Khan is right when he said we need to focus on strengthenning our pace attack, as India play spin comparetively much better then pace bowling. Ideally I'd like us to go with a combination of 3 quick bowlers, a spinner + 1 all rounder. That is closest to what the best teams in the world do, and have done in the past.

Secondly, here is what Bob Woolmer had to say on Shabbir Ahmed's fitness on his website

Originally Posted by BW

Shabbir Ahmed is on the road to recovery, the original injury has healed fine that is the cartilage. He does however have a small lesion in his right knee which is causing pain. A lesion is slight degeneration of the bone or dying bone. The only way for this lesion to repair is by use and Shabbir has to load (be weight bearing) on this knee to increase the blood flow to the bone so that it can repair. In essence he has to go through a pain barrier and he should be fine to bowl as soon as he feels he can.

I think at this point in time I might be mentally more sure about his fitness than Shoaib's. I don't think I'll leave him out of the squad. Also I do think our management might have run out of patience on Imran Farhat, I think he will not get the nod.

And in all fairness, both Mohamad Khalil bowled well enough in the VB series to qualify ahead of Shahid Nazir.

On the basis of all that I predict that this shall be our squad

1)Butt 2)Hammed 3)Umar 4) Khan (Younis) 5)Youhanna 6)Inzamam ul Haq 7)Kamal 8)Malik 9)Razzaq 10)Akmal 11)Ahmed 12)Sami 13)Akhtar 14)Naved-ul-Hasan 15)Khalil 16)Kaneria 17)Khan (Arshad)

[Maranello]

ZR from what I can tell, the three changes that you suggest to my proposed squad are: Khalil instead of Shahid Nazir, Abdul Razzaq instead of Rao and Shabbir Ahmed instead of Imran Farhat. Is that correct?

I am happy to include Khalil; to be honest, I have not seen Shahid Nazir, and if he is not as good as Khalil, he should not be picked. However, we should probably not rely on Khalil ripping through the Indian batting line-up anytime soon :-)

Razzy is not a Test player either as a batsman or as a bowler as yet, and Rao is a better bowler than him, though I agree neither is particularly penetrative once the ball is old. Hence, I would stick with Rao.

I have a feeling that the final squad may be 16 instead of 17, in which I would be happy to leave out Imran Farhat. However, I agree that Shabbir might end up being in the final 16 too, probably at the expense of Rao Iftikhar Anjam.

We will discuss the actual team selection in more detail once the squad has been announced. One comment though, your 'ideal' team apparently would include an all-rounder. However, with Afridi not touring and Malik not allowed to bowl, we do not have an all-rounder. Is Abdul Razzaq good enough to bat at no. 6 in India? Can we afford to have only five batsmen with Abdul Razzaq starting the 'tail' at no.6? I really do not think so. Asim Kamal is a must at no.6 in the first Test, and the alternate if he does not work out is Shoaib Malik, due to his often impeccable technique and solid temperament.

[Zainub]

I rate Abdul Razzaq as an all rounder, he has test match 100s and five fors.

Sometime back Freddie was like Razzaq in the sense that people were losing faith in him as being an all rounder, and they were starting to claim he was not good enough, look at where he is now.

I'm willing to be patient. He has the talent, only a matter of when he starts converting it into performances. If he can do it at one-day level against the best teams going around, no reason why he shouldn't sooner or later do it in tests as well. I have faith.

[vvvrulz]

For me this is the best team Pakistan has to offer and should have persisted with a line-up like this in Australia.

Salman Butt
Taufeeq Umar
Yasir Hameed
Yousuf Youhana
Inzamam Ul Haq(c)
Younis Khan
Kamran Akmal
Shahid Afridi
Mohammand Sami
Shoaib Akhtar
Danish Kaneria

Asim Kamal (12th man)

I would leave out Abdul Razzaq after a lean trot in the Test arena for the last couple of years.

[bevo]

pakistan dont need their two frontl line pacers being as quick as they are sami is pretty quick , and we all know about akhtar , so rana should get in.

[vvvrulz]

Actually Rana did impress in Australia, he is probably a fringe player. Forgive that error in my post, Afridi will not be up for selection. I would put Asim Kamal in his place.

As in Maranello's post, their biggest problem is sorting out who will be in that top three. Taufeeq, Hameed, Salman and Younis are all heavy competitors. In the end they will probably discard Taufeeq, even though I think he is the most competent of the four.

[bevo]

yeh taufeeq would be the one going , but back on rana , do you recon the selectores will go with him