Can India match Pakistan's grace and hospitality?

[Maranello]

Very interesting cricinfo article:

During a casual conversation a couple of weeks ago, a senior member of the Indian team revealed his worst fears about Pakistan's oncoming tour of India. It wasn't a rib-cracking and toe-crunching spell from Shoaib Akhtar, a purple patch from Inzamam-ul-Haq, or India's indifferent form this season. "I just hope," he said, "we, as a nation, are able to reciprocate in kind to the manner Indians were treated in Pakistan when they toured last year."

The portents are not too good, with the Hindu extremists of the Shiv Sena trying to tear up pitches on which Pakistan is scheduled to play, and the extreme right-wing government of Narendra Modi making very anti-Pakistan noises. However, Indians like to believe that such people, however vile their actions, are a minority in their country; hopefully those with reason and good sense will prevail.

If past precedence is any guide, one cannot be too hopeful; the Indian masses crowded into their large stadia have, on many occasions, vented their anger at their team's defeat on the opposition, with ugly results. It will take a herculean security effort to ensure a repeat does not happen.

[Zainub]

“Can India match Pakistan's grace and hospitality?” Well, hopefully they will.

Yes, it has not been the most promising of beginnings with a certain minority going on with their usual nonsensical political rants, but there was quite some skepticism around in the air before India toured Pakistan too and we all know what happened after that.

The only relevant factor here is that the large majority of cricket fans in both India and Pakistan know that 55 odd years of hatred and unfriendliness haven’t worked, so we are much better of keeping our selves focused on the light of optimism and thus by way stay clear of the shadows.

Cricket wise too, although there always is a lot of emotion attached to Ind-Pak games, what ever the sport is, I think more people realise now then ever before in the sporting history of sub continent that eventually this is only going to be a game where one group will lose and the other will win.

If all the billions of Indian fans in India are going to act like the 10,000 which visited us last year, I have no doubt, this series is going to be just as wonderful as the last one. There is no reason for anyone to be getting overtly pessimistic.

At least I'm not.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Maranello

If past precedence is any guide, one cannot be too hopeful; the Indian masses crowded into their large stadia have, on many occasions, vented their anger at their team's defeat on the opposition, with ugly results. It will take a herculean security effort to ensure a repeat does not happen.

I hear what you are saying.. and I quite believe you... but I still find the very thought of such excess difficult to comprehend: I can't believe these games are over-run by hundereds of thousands of completely unreasonable fanatics.. and I'm prepared to believe that in isolation most of those who attend are capable of being perfectly agreeable - so what's the problem?

It's always a shame to see venues stripped of Test status for poor fan control and games played behind closed doors or in undisclosed locations to prevent disorder so I hope the worst fears aren't realised.. but I guess that's the sort of step that's coming if this series does NOT get off to a good start.

All seems a bit ridiculous really.. but that's an outsider's perspective.

[vvvrulz]

There are some particular stadia where there is cause for concern, and I do think, despite me being a Hindu myself, that we will have more trouble holding back our emotions than the Pakistani's did last year. I was very impressed with how the tour went off without a hitch, despite Pakistan losing both series. Hopefully we have the dignity to match that effort.

[Shaka]

I don't know why I have this feeling, but my view is that the northern parts of India like Dehli will be a lot more gracious than places like Calcutta. When we played the ODI there just recently the crowd seemed quite unfriendly, although at least they were well enough behaved. Pakistan fans welcomed Indians with open arms all over the country, it would be nice to think we would see a similar attitude across the border. I would like to think though that the hindu extremists are not representative of India's public as a whole and remain quite optimistic.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Rachael

...but I still find the very thought of such excess difficult to comprehend: I can't believe these games are over-run by hundereds of thousands of completely unreasonable fanatics.. and I'm prepared to believe that in isolation most of those who attend are capable of being perfectly agreeable - so what's the problem?

That is the key question Rachael. There is a healthy body of pshychological and sociological research to support the notion that after a certain point, a "mob" or a group can develop a thinking and consciousness of its own. Throughout history, otherwise sensible people have behaved senselessly when part of a much larger group, and often such groups tend to reflect the worst emotions and actions of the individual group members. In a sporting context, it is not uncommon for mobs to develop a conscious or even unconscious mentality of their own, quite distinct from the thinking of the thousands of individuals who make up the mob.

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by Maranello

the Hindu extremists of the Shiv Sena trying to tear up pitches on which Pakistan is scheduled to play, and the extreme right-wing government of Narendra Modi making very anti-Pakistan noises. However, Indians like to believe that such people, however vile their actions, are a minority in their country; hopefully those with reason and good sense will prevail.

Is this Modi guy the Indian President???

I remember India dropped in for tea at the Pakistan Presidents residence last tour and there seemed no problems...

If Modi is President....Signs are looking downwards

[Occasional Fan]

I confess I know nothing of the governmental structure of India, but The Times of India today describes him as Gujarat Chief Minister. It also suggests that he is a controversial figure. More than that, I cannot add.

[Maranello]

No thankfully he is not the President Paoli, that would be horrifying! In any case, India is a parliamentary democracy (like Australia, the UK and the rest of the 'proper' world ) and hence real power resides with the PM; the President is just a constitutional figure-head with no power or authority. India's current PM is the Cambridge economist Dr. Manmohan Singh, a sensible sounding character; a big improvement from the previous PM Vajpayee, who was the head of the far-right Hindu extremist political party.

Narendra Modi is the Chief Minister of the state of Gujarat (the Indian union comprises 27 states, excl. the disputed territory of Jammu & Kashmir). This state witnessed horrific anti-Muslim pogroms recently in which thousands were massacred while the government watched on, or allegedly, in some cases even aided the hate-mobs. For this reason, Pakistan have refused to play at Ahmedabad, the state capital of Gujarat. A sound move on moral as well as security grounds.

Morally, playing in a state mis-governed by Modi is far worse than playing in a land mis-ruled by Mugabe. As long as Modi is the state CM, and continues his policies, and refuses to even apologise for the pogroms, Pakistan's playing cricket in Gujarat should be out of the question.

Security wise, this area remains a tinder-box, with the lives of many local Muslims hanging by a thin thread. Imagine the scenario - Pakistan play at Ahmedabad, it is a controversial encounter, but Pakistan end up winning convincingly. The resulting riots can get very ugly, and it is not improbable that the mobs will take out their "revenge" on the hapless Muslim minority.

Better to avoid all that and play in friendlier places such as Mohali and Madras....! India after all is a very large country, and we all hope that people like Modi are in a minority.


PS: apologies to OF for repeating the info he kindly provided. While I was pontlessly rambling, he stepped in with a factual and succinct reply

[Occasional Fan]

Originally Posted by Maranello

PS: apologies to OF for repeating the info he kindly provided. While I was pontlessly rambling, he stepped in with a factual and succinct reply

No problem, Maranello: he also posted the sum total of his knowledge on the matter, all of which was gleaned from one newspaper report this morning in The Times of India!