Defensive bowling selection getting what it deserves?

[Shaka]

I'm of the view that our decision to keep playing medium pace all rounders rather than specialist pace bowlers is asking to be punished and that is what is happening. Forget the "if dropped catch had been taken, it would all have been different" view. Aussies dropped plenty of catches against us (unusually) but their bowlers were good enough to come back in the next over.

Pakistan needs to identify a couple of specialist quicks and persevere with them. The only thing we know for sure is that Sami, Rana and Razzaq is a recipe that has the opposition batsmen licking their lips at the tasty dish they can feast on over five days. Rana and Razzaq are fine ODI bowlers but that's all they are. Someone like Woolmer needs to recognise that fact by now. India's pace bowlers are hardly terrorising yet the difference in quality is frankly embarrassing.

[Ernest]

I agree here Shaka, you need pace bowlers, thats why I was not pleased when England dumped Devon Malcolm, ok he could be expensive, but he took good wickets, and had a good strike rate.

I agree a selection team should give a pace bowlong time to settle in.

[Shaka]

I should qualify that when I say specialist quicks, they don't have to be necessarily fast. Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed aren't any quicker than Rana, but they get bounce and movement off the seam. Rana And Razzaq are both very limited bowlers without much variety. Rana has a decent away swinger with the new ball but it's his only weapon. Razzaq cuts the ball in to right-handers, but rarely gets it to go the other way which makes him very predictable.

[Chuck Palumbo]

But who is there? Gul, Shabbir and Shoiab are all injured plus Khalil and Anjum didn't exactly impress in Australia.

Is there any fast bowler in Pakistani dometic cricket that Pakistan can rely on to bowl well in India?

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Chuck Palumbo

But who is there? Gul, Shabbir and Shoiab are all injured plus Khalil and Anjum didn't exactly impress in Australia.

"Gul, Shabbir and Shoiab": that's not a bad trio. If Razzaq and Kaneria can hold down a place alongside them that's got potential. Seems a bit daft to expect a second string attack to match what would, for my money, be a pretty passable first string attack.

[Paoli]

Rana Naved Ul-Hasan, decent workhorse

[Shaka]

Originally Posted by Chuck Palumbo

But who is there? Gul, Shabbir and Shoiab are all injured plus Khalil and Anjum didn't exactly impress in Australia.

Is there any fast bowler in Pakistani dometic cricket that Pakistan can rely on to bowl well in India?

Actually Rao Iftikhar Anjum was bowling very well in Australia towards the end. I think I even posted a thread here how improved he was from the first time I saw him. His chief quality is he does have the ability to move the ball both ways, and has a very decent outswinger. Khalil too looked a lot better in the ODI's sometimes it's a case of picking a bowler who shows some ability and letting them have a few games. Not that these two are going to blow the opposition away, but Rana and Razzaq are clearly 3rd seamers and that is the only job they should fairly be expected to do.

Incidentally, I watched both Sami and Rana bowling with the new ball today and they were both banging the ball in so short I was amazed Inzimam didn't go up to Sami and boot him up the ****. Both Razzaq and Rana did well with the bat though. If this is called a successful strategy then I would suggest they get Afridi in the side as well and go for three draws then win the ODI's.

[Zainub]

If you noticed Shaka, Sami bowling short actually kept Sehwag quite, he didn't score that many boundaries until rather strangley Younis Khan was introduced into the attack to gift the Indian opening pair a chance to get some easy test runs and boast their test averages when clearly Inzi's aim should have been to try and win as many mental battles ahead of the second test as possible, Abdul Razzaq should have bowled in my opinion. In anycase the short bowling tactic was seeminly aimed to try and prevent Sehwag from scoring quickly. I can see that working to some extent on day 5 when a result is not a realistic posssibility as was the case today but come India have won the toss and decided to bat first on a placid surface at the Eden Gardens I don't presume Sehwag or any other Indian batsmen for that matter would be as kind. They'd probably dispatch all of those half trackers to which ever boundary of the ground they please. So you're right, Pakistan need to sort their tactics out and be realistic. Very rarely have I seen fast bowlers taking a lot of wickets in the sub continent banging the ball in short, on the slower lower surfaces here you are best advised to stick to the more orthodox mode of attack and bowl either good line and length or full of length fast inswinging yorkers.

The actual make up of the bowling attack of the Pakistan is debateable, but for me what has been the continued disapointing feature of our subsequent bowling performances since the injuries to Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed is the inability of the likes of Sami, Razzaq and even Rana Naved ul Hasan in this test match to get any sort of swing or seam movement, either off the pitch or in the air. Laxmipathy Balaji, who bowled admirably in both innings for India and also picked up 9 wickets in the process consistenty got the ball to swing (both conventionally as well as reverse swing) and so was Irfan Pathan able to get some seam movement early on the match with the new ball but with the Pakistani bowlers there was no evidence of swing what so ever. I understand as such that some one like Sami in particular bowls at a considerably brisker pace then say Pathan and Balaji and that isn't exactly conducive for swing bowling but the pace at which Razzaq and Rana bowl is more or less the same as the the Indian attack, the only difference here is that our bowlers for some bizarly obsecure reason don't bowl with an upright seam. That totally bemuzes me. Surely some one here who has played cricket with a proper seam bowl will be able to highlight this factor for me. Is bowling with an upright seam really that difficult a task? From all that I've heard, especially from the likes of Michael Holding, it apparently isn't. Then why the hell do our bowlers not bowl with an upright seam???!!!???

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Zainub Razvi

Laxmipathy Balaji, who bowled admirably in both innings for India and also picked up 9 wickets in the process consistenty got the ball to swing (both conventionally as well as reverse swing) and so was Irfan Pathan able to get some seam movement early on the match with the new ball but with the Pakistani bowlers there was no evidence of swing what so ever.

[...] why the hell do our bowlers not bowl with an upright seam???!!!???

Lots of good questions.. but if it's any consolation.. I believe both Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed can do as you say:

Originally Posted by cricinfo

On the flat tracks of Sharjah, Gul performed admirably, maintaining excellent discipline and getting appreciable outswing with the new ball. However, his biggest moment in his brief international career so far came in the Lahore Test against India in 2003-04. Unfazed by a daunting batting line-up, Gul tore through the Indian top order with his ability to move the ball both ways off the seam at a sharp pace. [...] Gul isn't in the Shoaib Akhtar category in terms of pace, but his exceptional control and ability to extract seam movement marks him out as a bowler who should serve Pakistan cricket for a long time.

Originally Posted by cricinfo

A tall, lean fast bowler, Shabbir Ahmed’s towering height (6’5”) helps him extract a great deal of bounce even on lifeless wickets. He bowls from close to the stumps – much like Glenn McGrath – which allows him to stick to a tight wicket-to-wicket line. He can swing the ball away from right handers with the new ball, and is a good exponent of reverse swing at the later stages of an innings.

Stick those two in an attack alongside Akhtar and Razzaq and that's a quartet with a fair bit to offer. Add in Kaneria and so long as the batting sis strong enough to cope with what would be a pretty long tail.... I reckon you have a crew that most captains would be very happy to see.

Only thing is... you could do with a couple of senior bowlers to take the heat whilst the novices find their feet... and I'm not sure that's an option.

[Zainub]

You're right Rachael, Gul and Ahmed really were a handful, and we realised just how much we could do with them in our team since they've been injured. What I'm concerned about though is the fact that both have suffered serious (potentially career threatening injuries, especially Umar Gul, who has suffered a stress facture in his back at only age 20) I'm not sure if they will be just as affective as they were before their respective injuries, although I'm extremely hopeful they will be.

Only thing is... you could do with a couple of senior bowlers to take the heat whilst the novices find their feet... and I'm not sure that's an option.

Surely with 30 odd test matches under his belt one has to consider Shoaib Akhtar as a senior bowler. But the most important thing I think we need, is for this lot to get fit and stay fit. Shoaib seems to churn up niggle after every other match, Umar Gul's been out for what seems like years and Shabbir Ahmed, he seems vulnerable too at times. All this needs to change. We need these guys to stay fit and play many games for us.

In principle you're right, an attack of Ahmed, Akhtar, Gul, Razzaq and Kaneria would be wonderful to have. With Kamran Akmal's batting developing at impressive rates and Razzaq also slowly finding his feat batting wise at test level I'm not too concerned about out the length of the tail (and Shoaib can bat by the way) what we will need though is for our top three to be more consistent., much more consistent as a matter of fact then they have been in recent times.