Shoaib and Asif win appeal

[Mr Hutt]

When making a judgement call it falls upon every one of us to see the burden of proof and make the call!!

Are you saying you have faith in the court system here? for your info the judge in question in the second hearing is the same guy who protested to Mustaq Ahmed being in the pakistan camp as bowling coach.

It is true that shoaib's admittance to his partying life style was found weird in the first report as such information was not neccessary to be submitted but that is not what he was penalized for.

He was penalized for taking steroids and so was asif.

and we do have a serving military man as president.. and you can buy judges in pakistan.

Im sure you know this too whether you will choose to admit it or not is your own demon.

[Oliver]

This reminds me of the kangaroo court that participated in the Los Angeles Olympic games.

At the time, or rather just before, it was reckoned that some of the boxing contests had not been entirely correctly judged, so the Americans decided that the best way to get the "right" people to win would be to have three judges watching the fight, who get to hit a buzzer each time a boxer lands a blow. Presumably a different one for each fighter. And three more judges on an "appeals panel" who get to overturn any "dodgy decisions." (This was before the technology arrived to clarify the rule, that if all three judges hit the same buzzer simultaneously then the relevant boxer would be awarded a point.)

Now I like boxing, and granted it is an extremely dodgy sport. "Aha two grown men trying to knock each other senseless - how sensible" remarked a colleague of mine.

Yup, many fights in the professional arena are clearly fixed (just like horse-racing) but it's still mano-a-mano and there is some fascination for me - afterall surely the skill is in working out which is the one that wasn't fixed and putting your money on that one.

A mug's game.

I remember the final of the heavy-weights (I think - might have been the Cruiser-weights might've been the Superheavies).

I watched an Italian bashing ten bells out of an American (possibly one of the Spinks brothers - can't remember - too lazy to look it up). Sadly the Italian failed to knock the American over by the end of their three round contest.

But nevertheless all three judges scored the fight to the Italian and he prepared to collect his gold medal.

The boxing committee looked at the result, they looked at each other,and then they looked at Don King who would pay them all vast sums of money should the American win the gold medal.

And they overturned the decision.

It was disgusting. And very, very, typical of American cynicism in sport.

That is not what it's all about.

If one court says a sportsman is guilty, of cheating OR losing - with all that goes on in sport - with all the emotion that it produces - then that sportsman is indeed guilty.

And to overturn the decision is RIDICULOUS.

[DomainK]

May be these teams keep looking for excuses for their bad performances in the sub continent.

The Shoiab and Asif incident is far from over. There is more drama coming for sure. I think we can now dedicate a complete tv channell to Pakistan cricket. We have everything from drama to great cricket.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Oliver

If one court says a sportsman is guilty, of cheating OR losing - with all that goes on in sport - with all the emotion that it produces - then that sportsman is indeed guilty.

And to overturn the decision is RIDICULOUS.

I don't think that's fair Ollie. The first court may be biased, or ill-informed, or just incompetent. I would be very wary of doing away with an appeals process for anything, however trivial it may appear - the whole system loses integrity, and in fact, becomes unjust, if the accused cannot appeal against the verdict - your suggestion would make it open season for the worst mistrials of justice imaginable!

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Originally Posted by Maranello

The first court may be biased, or ill-informed, or just incompetent.

How do we know the second isnt ?!?!

You either took them or you didnt. If they were "fed" them without their knowledge, tough. They would have enjoyed the benifits surely.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

How do we know the second isnt ?!?!

We don't 'know' anything. However, in general, one would expect an appellate or higher court to operate to higher standards of probity and competence than the lower court - at least, that's the theory.

[Zainub]

I think going by your logic M, we can easily expect the first and the second courts, both to be inept and competent at the same time!

[Mr Hutt]

Originally Posted by Maranello

We don't 'know' anything. However, in general, one would expect an appellate or higher court to operate to higher standards of probity and competence than the lower court - at least, that's the theory.

We do know that both these players tested positive for a steroid Nandolorene with a count higher than the one usually found "au naturale" in the body

The original tribunal which had imposed the ban was chaired by barrister Shahid Hamid and included Intikhab Alam, the former Pakistan captain, and Waqar Ahmed, a doping expert.


The Committee that let them walk was as follows.
The three-man committee, headed by Justice Fakhruddin Ebrahim, voted two to one in favour of the acquittal. Haseeb Ahsan, former Test cricketer, and Ebrahim were in favour of the acquittal while the third member, Danish Zaheer, dissented


you tell me which court is higher? first of all both the tribunals consisted of committees not courts.. therefore your lawyer logic is totally flawed, they did not appeal to an appelente court.

I think i will go with the first one.. as it includes Intikhab Alam a very respected and usually level minded fellow as well as Waqar Ahmed a doping expert!!!

Further links to reinforce my claim of this being flawed justice are the following articles. All written by professional Sports writers worth their salt!

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/ci/c...ry/271416.html

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/ci/c...ry/271398.html

http://content-pak.cricinfo.com/ci/c...ry/271499.html

Now you can make up your own mind. I think the first decision was the right one, and the current decision not only makes a mockery out of our legal system and our board, but also sets an abhorrent precedent for all our teenagers who are trying to play cricket and maybe get into the team

I for one would be appalled if the future generations of Pakistani cricketers were to follow the example of these two and look upto them as their heros.. this is not the example i would want my own kid to follow!

Sport is all about being fair, working hard, achieving glory on merit

ever heard the message dont do drugs play sports?? well you cant do both togather and be let off scott free!!

[Shaka]

Wasn't it Shane Warne's mum who might have slipped him a diuretic (by accident) in his cold remedy? Must have worked wonders as he's a very fit looking lad these days despite his career looking finished a few years ago through 'wear and tear'.

We should be thankful that he's still on the cricket scene, rather than working in India as a 2nd rate weather forecaster.

[cantplaycantalk]

Warne served a ban for the use of the illegal substance. From what I know it wasn't regarded as being performance enhancing it was more a matter of something which could potentially be used to mask other drugs and was therefore illegal.
It all comes down to the principal of strict liability within sport. If it is in your body and you can't prove yourself innocent then you are de-facto guilty.

Overturning the bans on Shoaib and Asif on top of all the other contraversy surrounding Pakistan cricket can only tend to suggest to many that something is very wrong within the establishment of Pakistan cricket as a whole.

Historical ball tampering (admitted), pitch dancing (filmed), ball tampering (unproven), positive drugs tests on two star bowlers. Those tests and bans being ignored and the players brought back into the team.
If enough mud flys in the direction of Pakistan cricket like this then the rest of the world is more or less bound to look at it and think cricket is a dirty sport in Pakistan.

The cricket authorities in Pakistan really need to do some serious clean up work, when players step out of line throw them out, don't select them, send a message. For the sake of cricket, Pakistan has enough truely talented players that they can come down hard on the ones who are causing problems.