J. Kallis in his true light.

[greg]

De Villiers and Gibbs scored fairly heavily through the series.It was England's batting that was poor apart from Strauss and a couple of Trescothick knocks.

[djdannybrown]

We still won the test series though.I think our bowling is alot better now with Simon Jones and even Flintoff has got better at bowling.Youve got to look at how Pietersen would have done in the series and even Ian Bell.

[John]

Originally Posted by djdannybrown

We still won the test series though.I think our bowling is alot better now with Simon Jones and even Flintoff has got better at bowling.Youve got to look at how Pietersen would have done in the series and even Ian Bell.

I think you have a point. The England bowlers have sharpened except Hoggard. Jones has really come of age which he didnt in the SA tour. But I still think Kallis did bat very well.
By the way Flintoff still has loads to do catch up other allrounders Kallis, Pollock and Crains.
Just one figure to compare Crains 13 five wicket haul Flintoff 1. So if we keep kallis performance in proportion that applies to every cricketer.
And talking about keeping things in proportion this Aussie bowling is a shadow of what it was. Agreed?

[Chuck Palumbo]

Kallis is indeed one of the top batsman in the world at this current time. This winter, he has a chance to cement his place as one of the best batsman of the last decade when comes up against Australia. So far in his career, he hasn't done much of note against the Aussies, this in my view has stopped him from making the step up from being a world class batsman, to one of the greats.

This winter he will face Australia home and away....this is his big chance to finally prove himself against the worlds best team. If he doesn't this year, he may never get a better chance.

[John]

I am not sure where the dividing line of being a great and being very good is.
I would think Kallis is a great allrounder. There are not that many who have played as allrounders who are better.All the other top allrounders are Greats Imran, Wasim, Botham, Hadlee etc. Kallis is very close.
As a batsmen alone he may not well be a batting Great. But consider his batting compared to Vaughan you certainly can't say Vaughan is the better batsmen at Test level.
And ODI Kallis 44 Vaughan 28 ( batting average) no doubt there.

[greg]

Kallis is a class batsman but his bowling ability has dropped off lately so Flintoff is a better all rounder now.No doubt though that Kallis is one of the finest batsman in the world at the moment.His average in the 50's has been grafted for and he looked the part against England (bit selfish at times) where as the Aussie 50+ boys haven't cut the mustard this summer.

[djdannybrown]

Must agree.Flintoff may only have 1 five wicket hauls but if you look away from stats Flintoff has changed games from both his batting and bowling.Flintoff is a far better bowler than Kallis.

What until the super series comes along.I bet Kallis doesnt even bowl at all.

[John]

Originally Posted by djdannybrown

What until the super series comes along.I bet Kallis doesnt even bowl at all.

I hope Kallis doesn't bowl anymore. I think his bowling has come to an end. So that is 189 Test wickets and 22 centuries and counting.
I looked up his age compared to Flintoff I expected there to be a big gap only two years. Kallis is just about to reach 30 a few years batting yet.
Flintoff goes to Pakistan and India in the winter how many five wicket hauls in those tours?

[Seamer]

Originally Posted by John

Flintoff goes to Pakistan and India in the winter how many five wicket hauls in those tours?

Yes the heat, lack of pace in the wickets, lack of swing and short boundaries will be a far cry from English conditions. I am not sure but i think they use the Kookaburra ball as well which is more durable but less helpful for the bowlers.
I will be very interested to see how they perform in those conditions to be honest. The stamina of the English bowlers is suspect and may well be found wanting in the blast furnace conditions of the sub continent. But if they want to be number 1, they will have to find a way as Australia did.

[John]

Yes Seamer its not as if Flintoff doesn't bowl a lot I have been watching over past few years. According to Boycott he is the one Vaughan turns to. So it is not lack of oppotunity.
Going back to the 2 nd Test Flintoff was one of the chief bowlers who struggled to get Warne and Kaspa out.
Look Kallis has been a good bowler for SA but he has only 4 five wicket hauls. Now when you look at Akram, Imran or Botham it puts it in perspective all who have 23 or above.
But at the moment its Flintoff worship and facts are free.