J. Kallis in his true light.

[rapido]

I did some statistical analysis of the test careers of the following all-rounders:

Kallis, Imran Khan, Kapil Dev, Botham, Hadlee, Shaun Pollock, Flintoff, Gary Sobers

I selected as INPUTS tests played, innings, balls delivered (balls faced and time on the pitch fielding would maybe be slightly better inputs but data wasn't available for each player). I selected as OUTPUTS runs scored, wickets taken, and catches held.

The statistical calculation for each player calculated the optimum weights that maximised their weighted outputs divided by weighted inputs. I set the constraints (based on all eight playing records) that each wicket taken should be at least 15 times more important than a run scored and that wickets should also be at least five times more important than each catch taken.

I carried out the calculations eight times using a computer to select the optimium input and output weights for each player; these weights were then applied to the other seven players. At the end of the process, I averaged the scores.

The RESULT reveals the relative effectiveness of each player realtive to one another. Kallis comes out top (=100), closely followed by Imran Khan (=99.6). Botham and Hadlee tied for third (=97.3).

This technique (Data Envelopment Analysis) is used a lot to work out the best/worst performing division in a company or the best/worst schools. You can find a brief description at: http://www.emp.pdx.edu/dea/homedea.html

There are variations that can be tried, but on the basis of the data available Kallis and Imran Khan are arguably the best all-rounders in the history of test cricket.

If people are interested, I'll post the results in full.

- Simon

[Zainub]

Please do so. I'b be really interested.

[djdannybrown]

I'd want to see that.Bet Flintoff comes out bottom though.True talent of him came out to soon.Can;t believe Kallis is number 1.Can you tell what Kallis' batting average is(Think is high)but more importantly what is his bowling average.

[rapido]

Batting and bowling averages are ratios (wickets taken divided by runs conceded). The problem with ratios is that there is usually more than one, which makes it hard to compare playing records (player A has a better batting average than player B, but a worse bowling average). DEA (Data Envelopment Analysis) uses the same information that calculates batting/bowling averages but provides a solution to the comparison problem.

The data for the analysis was taken from Cricinfo. Here are the results of the analysis (an average of the eight trials, using each player's optimum rates). Note that the original ranking (which I did by hand!) was wrong: Kallis is 1st, Hadlee and Imran joint second (indistinguishable), Botham 4th, the rest as before:

Botham: average 0.977, 4th
Hadlee: average 0.997, =2nd
Imran: average 0.996, =2nd
Kapil Dev, average 0.862, 7th
Sobers, average 0.958,5th
Flintoff, average 0.842, 8th
Kallis, average 1.000, 1st
Pollock, average 0.931, 6th

These are relevant efficiencies. For example, Flintoff is 84.2 percent as efficient as Kallis, Kapil Dev 86.2 percent as efficient.

One of the drawbacks of DEA is that there is no built-in test of significance. More advanced techniques can be used to determine tolerance levels. The performance of the top three can be regarded as identical; the gap between them and Botham and Sobers may also not be significant. Finally, Flintoff, Kallis, and Pollock are still playing test cricket; there relative efficiencies may change before retirement beckons.

- Simon

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by rapido

I did some statistical analysis of the test careers of the following all-rounders:

Kallis, Imran Khan, Kapil Dev, Botham, Hadlee, Shaun Pollock, Flintoff, Gary Sobers

Should Craig White and Derek Pringle not be added to that list? Seriously though would adding a 'not very good' all rounder highlight the strengths of 7 you have analysed.

[DeKrieket-Kundige]

I think is time to sort out this subject for once and for all. JACQUES HENRY KALLIS IS THE GREATEST ALL ROUNDER EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. And for anyone who thinks his bowling years is over, ive got a surprise for them.It doesn't matter if his only going to take around 2 wickets/test from now on, he will still end his career in the no1 spot with Sobers a safe 2nd. I truly don't think Flintoff will came near Kallis & Sobers.

Like i always say: "Stats don't tell the whole story, it tells the ONLY story"

Here's my Top 10 on each Level ( as at 20/09/2005 ).All Rounders

Qualifications: Level A = 100+ Wickets & 2000+ Runs
Level B = 50 Wickets & 1000 Runs
Level C = 25 Wickets & 500 Runs

Level A

Name Rating pnt. W R Country Prev. rating

1 JH Kallis. 806.77 183 7337 RSA. A1 / 795.83
2 GS Sobers. 769.22 235 8032 WIN.
3 Imran Khan. 750.56 362 3807 PAK.
4 KR Miller. 736.70 170 2958 AUS.
5 CL Cairns. 693.02 218 3320 N.Z.
6 RJ Hadlee. 689.92 431 3124 N.Z.
7 AW Greig. 689.86 141 3599 ENG.
8 IT Botham. 688.00 383 5200 ENG.
9 SM Pollock. 687.79 377 3133 RSA. A6 / 690.66
10 A Flintoff. 639.73 143 2641 ENG. A13 / 616.41

Level B

Name Rating pnt W R Country Prev. rating

1 GA Faulkner. 777.42 82 1754 RSA.
2 WR Hammond. 759.71 83 7249 ENG.
3 ER Dexter. 712.31 66 4502 ENG.
4 SR Waugh. 697.87 92 10927 AUS.
5 Mushtaq Mohamm. 696.66 79 3643 PAK.
6 Asif Iqbal. 683.49 53 3575 PAK.
7 FMM Worrell. 673.10 69 3860 WIN.
8 ST Jayasuriya. 671.05 92 6580 SRI. B7 / 680.97
9 JM Gregory. 665.79 85 1146 AUS.
10 MA Noble. 665.68 121 1997 AUS.

Level C

Name Rating pnt. W R Country Prev. rating

1 W Bates. 798.36 50 656 ENG.
2 W Barnes. 796.23 51 725 ENG.
3 AG Steel. 792.62 29 600 ENG.
4 KD Walters. 765.75 49 5357 AUS.
5 KF Barrington. 743.96 29 6806 ENG.
6 SR Tendulkar. 734.91 37 10134 IND. C6 / 742.25
7 MG Bevan. 729.06 29 785 AUS.
8 RM Cowper. 720.99 36 2061 AUS.
9 EJ Barlow. 717.04 40 2516 RSA.
10 SJ Snooke. 711.45 35 1008 RSA.

My All Time Test- and ODI ratings are the world's most comprehensive ratings for international cricket.
These ratings set new standards and is the only ratings where current- and past players are rated
against each other, both in Test- and ODI cricket.

In devising these ratings, I have tried to make the task of evaluating players skills as objective as
possible.Cricket enthusiasts can now get a 100% accurate picture of where certain players standings
is in the game ( as per All Time Lists ). On the other hand, players too will benefit from the
evaluation of their skills.

To cover the whole gamut of the game, I am proposing 3 ratings each in both Test- and ODI cricket,
and each of the ratings is devided into separate levels.

Test Cricket

Batsmen: Level A : 6000+ runs
Level B : 4000-5999 runs
Level C : 2000-3999 runs
Level D : 500-1999 runs

Bowlers: Level A : 300+ wickets
Level B : 200-299 wickets
Level C : 100-199 wickets
Level D : 25-99 wickets

All Rounders: Level A : 100+ wickets & 2000+ runs
Level B : 50 wickets & 1000 runs
Level C : 25 wickets & 500 runs

ODI Cricket

Batsmen: Level A : 6000+ runs
Level B : 4000-5999 runs
Level C : 2000-3999 runs
Level D : 500-1999 runs

Bowlers: Level A : 300+ wickets
Level B : 200-299 wickets
Level C : 100-199 wickets
Level D : 25-99 wickets

All Rounders: Level A : 100+ wickets & 2000+ runs
Level B : 50 wickets & 1000 runs
Level C : 25 wickets & 500 runs

With these ratings, we can keep track of all the best Batsmen, Bowlers and All Rounders in all the
different categories and levels. The ratings get updated after every end of a Test- or ODI series.These
ratings will at all times reflect the movement of current players on the "All-Time lists" and will show a
current player's previous position and previous rating point as well.

Note:
*** "Rating point" and "Handycap point" same thing (Rating = Handycap) ***

*** All Ratings are based on career stats, and not current form as in the cases of other ratings ***

*** Current player = a player playing in at least 1 Test or 1 ODI match in the last 2 years
and have not yet retired ***

For the latest All Time Test & ODI ratings, anyone can mail me at Cvdbank@012lg.pwv.gov.za and please put all comments on this board.

All of it is to big to put on here, some very interesting questions will forever be answered, AND THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Can it say how many QUALITY batsmen bowlers get out. Great bat that kallis is, if memory serves most of his wickets lately seem to be against the likes of Zimbabwe.

[Collyisamackem]

Kallis better than Sobers? Erm.

[flanflinger]

Yes Colly

Even better than Botham, Sobers, Khan, Hadlee, Dev...

Not bad for a Batsman who bowls....

[The Phantom Ram]

Originally Posted by flanflinger

Not bad for a Batsman who bowls....

Or doesn't as the recent case tends to be.