J. Kallis in his true light.

[The Phantom Ram]

It seems like a lot of work has gone into this. Can I just ask what would be the Current World XI usiing your rankings? Using a team as 2 openers, 3 middle order batsmen 1 wicket keeper 2 all rounders and 3 bowlers (including at least one spinner in the final 2 catorgories. It'll be interesting to see.

[flanflinger]

Originally Posted by DeKrieket-Kundige

All of it is to big to put on here, some very interesting questions will forever be answered, AND THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

I think this guy has too much time on his hands!!

What's wrong with the current ICC ratings that take into account form rather than comparing players in the middles of there careers with those who have finished. They also take into account the players played against, the match situation and the conditions.

This method just seems to look at raw average - this means that a 100 against Bangladesh at Lords is rated the same as a 100 vs Australia in Sydney with Warne and MacGill bowling...

I'd rather stick with the ICC's computer programme thanks...

[John]

Originally Posted by Collyisamackem

Kallis better than Sobers? Erm.

I agree with this. I don't want to get into debate about Kallis being better than the likes of other great allrounders. All you can say is Kallis has a right to be compared in that sort of company. Besides a couple of comments about Kallis bowling he has got 180 plus wickets there are many Test bowlers who as were regarded reasonable didn't get many more wickets than that.
He has 4 five wicket hauls two more than the Great Andrew Flintoff can't be bad for someone who turns his arm over now and again.
I am also not blind to Kallis's faults his selfishness his slow batting. But his contribution has been invaluable. Without him SA would never have been the side they have been he is one of the Great allrounders. Any side would love a young Kallis coming into their side.

[The Phantom Ram]

I think this post was better in the Test forum as it wasn't simply about Kallis, I worry that it won't get the traffic in the South African thread.

[Occasional Fan]

TPR: if you take a look at post 26 in this thread, you will see that it comes some six weeks or so after the previous post. DKK posted it here as a reply to rapido and in the ITC forum, but we can only allow it to appear once. As it was a reply to rapido, it seemed to make sense to leave it here and move the responses which had been posted to the ITC thread here with it. The thread title and the title to DKK's post suggest strongly that Kalllis was the original focus.

As to likelihood of attracting traffic, well, let's see. This thread is now well up in the new posts page as a result of DKK's contribution and subsequent posts.

If anyone has strong views on where this thread should be, please let me know by PM - not by posting here. We want to keep the threads in the board on track, please.

[DeKrieket-Kundige]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Ram

It seems like a lot of work has gone into this. Can I just ask what would be the Current World XI usiing your rankings? Using a team as 2 openers, 3 middle order batsmen 1 wicket keeper 2 all rounders and 3 bowlers (including at least one spinner in the final 2 catorgories. It'll be interesting to see.

@ Phantom Ram....no problem, before i going to show you the Current World X1 with qualifications Batting:2000+ Test runs, Bowling:100+ wickets & All rounders 50 wickets & 1000 runs ( with the Team's batting-, bowling- and Overall rating points), here's the "All Time Test ratings" Current players lists for each Category and different Levels.........All ratings as at: 20/09/2005 (before World series).

Batsmen:
Level A : 6000+ runs
Level B : 4000-5999 runs
Level C : 2000-3999 runs
Level D : 500-1999 runs

Bowlers:
Level A : 300+ wickets
Level B : 200-299 wickets
Level C : 100-199 wickets
Level D : 25-99 wickets

All Rounders:
Level A : 100+ wickets & 2000+ runs
Level B : 50 wickets & 1000 runs
Level C : 25 wickets & 500 runs

Batting

Level A ( 6000+ Test runs )
1 R Dravid. 1000.31
2 SR Tendulkar. 988.94
3 BC Lara. 975.90
4 JH Kallis. 947.32
5 RT Ponting. 942.28
6 ML Hayden. 909.35
7 Inzamam-ul-Haq. 876.90
8 JL Langer. 823.93
9 S Chanderpaul. 802.43
10 ST Jayasuriya. 738.55
11 SP Fleming. 691.94

Level B ( 4000-5999 Test runs )
1 AC Gilchrist. 875.81
2 HH Gibbs. 839.17
3 JPMD Jayawardene.836.31
4 Yousuf Youhana. 831.47
5 DR Martyn. 820.63
6 ME Trescothick. 793.73
7 MP Vaughan. 771.71
8 VVS Laxman. 755.61
9 SC Ganguly. 718.48
10 NJ Astle. 674.32
11 MS Atapattu. 670.48

Level C ( 2000-3999 Test runs )
1 V Sehwag. 1004.21
2 GC Smith. 976.08
3 KC Sangakkara. 851.19
4 Younis Khan. 797.02
5 RR Sarwan. 720.25
6 CH Gayle. 709.10
7 CD McMillan. 662.99
8 Habibul Bashar. 618.31
9 WW Hinds. 610.70
10 A Flintoff. 600.66
11 MV Boucher. 521.80
12 Moin Khan. 501.49
13 SM Pollock. 498.43
14 WPUJC Vaas. 315.30
15 SK Warne. 230.76

Level D ( 500-1999 Test runs )
1 AB de Villiers. 956.63
2 AJ Strauss. 897.25
3 HJH Marshall. 853.32
4 TT Samaraweera. 842.23
5 G Gambhir. 768.75
6 Taufeeq Umar. 728.35
7 MJ Clarke. 720.82
8 JDP Oram. 708.56
9 Asim Kamal. 704.37
10 SB Styris. 691.64
11 SM Katich. 687.03
12 Yasir Hameed. 678.38
13 JA Rudolph. 660.02
14 AG Prince. 659.98
15 TM Dilshan. 659.26
16 Shahid Afridi. 635.91
17 L Vincent. 632.46
18 MS Sinclair. 632.43
19 BB McCullum. 628.41
20 RWT Key. 556.41
21 Imran Farhat. 550.65
22 HH Dippenaar. 547.42
23 GO Jones. 524.74
24 T Taibu. 523.44
25 PA Patel. 504.40
26 RP Arnold. 497.38
27 H Masakadza. 487.24
28 DS Smith. 486.87
29 Rajin Saleh. 484.40
30 Abdul Razzaq. 480.43
31 UDU Chandana. 479.86
32 AJ Hall. 475.96
33 AM Blignaut. 469.85
34 SV Carlisle. 469.00
35 N Boje. 436.25
36 Mohammad Ashraful418.46
37 D Ganga. 417.59
38 DD Ebrahim. 411.77
39 Javed Omar. 409.91
40 CB Wishart. 406.33
41 DL Vettori. 402.39
42 TR Gripper. 395.10
43 Hannan Sarkar. 367.78
44 Kamran Akmal. 352.71
45 HH Streak. 346.21
46 Khaled Mashud. 305.35
47 AF Giles. 303.59
48 Mohammad Rafique.289.92
49 HDPK Dharmasena. 284.74
50 B Lee. 284.31
51 Alok Kapali. 283.82
52 A Kumble. 186.32
53 Saqlain Mushtaq. 142.34
54 Harbhajan Singh. 141.68
55 JN Gillespie. 130.60
56 M Muralitharan. 81.94
57 GD McGrath. 26.00

Bowling

Level A ( 300+ Test wickets )
1 GD McGrath. 942.02
2 SM Pollock. 877.14
3 M Muralitharan. 874.92
4 SK Warne. 813.29
5 A Kumble. 716.27

Level B ( 200-299 Test wickets )
1 JN Gillespie. 806.77
2 M Ntini. 771.77
3 Harbhajan Singh. 740.18
4 HH Streak. 737.64
5 WPUJC Vaas. 712.86
6 Saqlain Mushtaq. 689.95
7 DL Vettori. 599.70

Level C ( 100-199 Test wickets )
1 Shoaib Akhtar. 944.65
2 SJ Harmison. 787.96
3 MJ Hoggard. 787.67
4 SCG MacGill. 786.91
5 B Lee. 751.89
6 Danish Kaneria. 731.00
7 MS Kasprowicz. 690.64
8 A Flintoff. 678.80
9 PR Adams. 667.59
10 JH Kallis. 666.21
11 Z Khan. 636.19
12 AF Giles. 551.22

Level D ( 25-99 Test wickets )
1 SE Bond. 1123.08
2 Umar Gul. 956.62
3 JEC Franklin. 903.52
4 JJC Lawson. 893.95
5 SL Malinga. 884.30
6 Shabbir Ahmed. 883.57
7 IK Pathan. 869.31
8 SP Jones. 856.09
9 A Nel. 847.52
10 CRD Fernando. 806.89
11 M Hayward. 795.03
12 AJ Bichel. 727.43
13 Shahid Afridi. 723.91
14 CD Collymore. 714.38
15 CS Martin. 707.49
16 DR Tuffey. 706.25
17 JM Anderson. 687.70
18 RD King. 675.38
19 AM Blignaut. 670.74
20 PT Collins. 660.71
21 Mashrafe Mortaza. 644.09
22 DNT Zoysa. 644.06
23 HMRKB Herath. 641.43
24 L Balaji. 637.95
25 Arshad Khan. 635.93
26 A Hall. 608.43
27 DB Powell. 606.45
28 ST Jayasuriya. 603.54
29 RW Price. 601.28
30 Abdul Razzaq. 589.51
31 FH Edwards. 583.59
32 N Boje. 573.05
33 UDU Chandana. 571.77
34 JDP Oram. 565.23
35 Mohammad Rafique.564.03
36 CH Gayle. 561.12
37 A Sanford. 552.72
38 A Nehra. 542.15
39 TJ Friend. 529.36
40 AB Agarkar. 506.13
41 Mohammad Sami. 505.88
42 CD McMillan. 491.34
43 SR Tendulkar. 480.88
44 HDPK Dharmasena. 474.95
45 PJ Wiseman. 468.79
46 SC Ganguly. 444.79
47 NJ Astle. 436.08
48 Tapash Baisya. 424.38
49 Manjural Islam. 400.72

All Rounders

Level A ( 100+ Test wickets / 2000+ Test runs )
1 JH Kallis. 806.77
2 SM Pollock. 687.79
3 A Flintoff. 639.73
4 SK Warne. 522.03
5 WPUJC Vaas. 514.08

Level B ( 50 Test wickets / 1000 Test runs )
1 ST Jayasuriya. 671.05
2 HH Streak. 541.93
3 Abdul Razzaq. 534.97
4 N Boje. 504.65
5 DL Vettori. 501.05
6 M Muralitharan. 478.43
7 A Kumble. 451.30
8 AF Giles. 427.41

Level C ( 25 Test wickets / 500 Test runs )
1 SR Tendulkar. 734.91
2 Shahid Afridi. 679.91
3 JDP Oram. 636.90
4 CH Gayle. 635.11
5 SC Ganguly. 581.64
6 CD McMillan. 577.17
7 AM Blignaut. 570.30
8 NJ Astle. 555.20
9 AJ Hall. 542.20
10 UDU Chandana. 525.82
11 B Lee. 518.10
12 GD McGrath. 484.01
13 JN Gillespie. 468.69
14 Harbhajan Singh. 440.93
15 Mohammad Rafique.426.98
16 Saqlain Mushtaq. 416.15
17 HDPK Dharmasena. 379.85

Ok, here's the best Current World X1 ( qualifications 2000+ runs / 100+ wick. / 50+ & 1000+ ), no current form, only according to career stats.

Openers.
V Sehwag. 1004.21
GC Smith. 976.08

3 Middle order batsmen.
BC Lara. 975.90
SR Tendulkar. 988.94
R Dravid. 1000.31

1 Wicket keeper.
AC Gilchrist. 875.81

2 All Rounders.
JH Kallis. 806.77 ( 947.32 / 666.21 )
SM Pollock. 687.79 ( 498.43 / 877.14 )

3 Bowlers ( incl. Spinner ).
GD McGrath. 942.02
Shoaib Akhtar. 944.65
M Muralitharan. 874.92

12th man.
SK Warne. 813.29


Team's Batting Handycap: 990.95
Team's Bowling Handycap: 902.58
Team's Overall Handycap: 946.77

Can anyone beat this team, i don't think so, not even Mars

[Occasional Fan]

Like TPR, I am amazed at the amount of work which has apparently gone into this exercise. Just looking at the world XI, though, and recalling references made during the northern summer to the best test series ever (not by me: by various well-informed commentators including Richie Benaud), does it seem odd to anyone else that there are no Englishmen in the line-up? And doesn't Shane Warne look a bit out of place at 12th man? Not knocking your statistical work here, DKK, but it does throw up an anomaly or two IMHO.

[jimmyjax]

I agree with Occasional... A few oddities (is that a word lol). Any system which puts Warney at 12th can't be right, no matter how it is calculated.. I don't think too many people would disagree with me on this on this one...

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by DeKrieket-Kundige

Can anyone beat this team, i don't think so, not even Mars

Mere mortals in my opinion though. You've put a grand amount of work in to this, but Kallis is way past it as an allrounder, maybe on facts he is, but in the real world he isn't, and I think a team of:

Strauss, Fleming, Ponting, Sarwan, Gibbs, Flintoff, Sangakkara, Streak, Warne, Simon Jones and Chaminda Vaas/Steve Harmison would be a massive match for your side. Add Kevin Pietersen and alot of new players, and I think there are a few anomalies. Your stats would be good at looking at these players at the end of their careers. Not during them though.

[flanflinger]

OK...

Lot of work here but it doesn't answer any questions that the ICC ratings don't already answer.

It also seems to favour South Africans - hmmm strange that

Warne at 12th... I think you can see why this system of using averages is not as good...