Pakistan A vs Australia A Thread

[Zainub]

Yes good to see Butt get a few runs...I've never quite made up my mind on Misbah, although Faisal I don't rate - he has sort of convinced me he is a flat track bully ...I'd be much happier had Hasan Raza got a few more runs.

Also nice to see Umar Gul getting seem decent bowling under his belt.

[Maranello]

I can help you make up your mind about Misbah. He is over 31 - way too old to be considered a 'prospect'. He has had his chances and did not take them. To be fair, he was not treated with great consistency or tact, but then, that's pretty routine in Pakistan, even in the Woolmer era.
Yes Salman Butt getting runs is good - I am still perplexed at his exclusion from the Tests on the India and WI tours. He is one for the future, and should remain in the first XI for a while.

I agree about Faisal Iqbal - he is Yasir Hameed category; will score runs against mediocre Test bowling, but does not seem good enough to challenge at the highest level of Test cricket.

In any case, for the next few years, I'd like us to remain with a fairly stable middle-order of Younis Khan, Inzamam, Youhana and Asim Kamal. In case of injury or retirements etc, cover should be provided by Shoaib Malik and Hasan Raza. Both Misbah and Faisal should be behind this lot as far as middle-order cover is concerned, and probably in the same category as Bazid Khan.

Opening however is a different issue - we have so many "prospects", eg Salman Butt, Taufiq Umar, Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, not to mention part-timers such as Shoaib Malik and Afridi. However, the problem is the constant chopping and changing, which seems to be a Woolmer obsession for this role only, and which is very unhealthy. We need to give two of these guys an extended run - show some confidence in them, and let them learn and develop.

I am happy about Umar Gul too, and Irshad seems to be doing better than before - ie actually taking wickets for a change! Shabbir did not do too well, and perhaps we should let him go; I am uncomfortable by the continued problems with his action in any case, we are not selecting a base-ball side.

[Zainub]

I agree with almost everything you have said here, I am increasingly concerned about our opening problems, and would like to see Butt, Afridi and Umar be given a decent run in that regard, we can try and use Bazid as an opener too if we want, but for the meanwhile, i.e. the England series, I'd settle for Butt-Afridi. Farhat and Hameed I've already ruled out as candidates. They've been given plenty of chance, and they've not grabbed them.

[Maranello]

Originally Posted by Zainub

I agree with almost everything you have said here

Wow, now if that isn't something!

Originally Posted by Zainub

I like to see Butt, Afridi and Umar a decent run in that regard.

You want Umar Gul to open?

aah okay... you are talking about Taufiq Umar! I don't think even he himself would have recognised who you were talking of...!

I agree, let's try Butt and Afridi in the short-term, and have Taufiq as the stand-by for either of them - Afridi's bowling makes him a very good option, so I would be loathe to drop him from the side altogether. Consistency in selection is the key though - BW needs to sort this out now.

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by M

aah okay... you are talking about Taufiq Umar! I don't think even he himself would have recognised who you were talking of...!

Was it really that ambiguous to comprehend? All I did was use his surname ...which is how I usually address most cricketers...

[Maranello]

But that's not his surname - a surname is a family name, eg Afridi, Khan, Butt, Razvi, etc - these names would be used generation after generation in that household. However names such as Taufiq Umar, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Shabbir Ahmed etc are merely two "first" or proper names, and the second half would not be passed on from generation to generation as the family name.

This naming practice is quite common in Pakistan and in the rest of the sub-continent, and is distinct and different from the normal Mid-Eastern convention of using family names or the Western norm of surnames.

[Zainub]

I know you were pedanctic, but this pedantic?...

[Orchid]

Originally Posted by Maranello

However names such as Taufiq Umar, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Shabbir Ahmed etc are merely two "first" or proper names, and the second half would not be passed on from generation to generation as the family name.

I was under the impression that 'Haq' was a surname. I'm pretty sure, Inzi's father and grand father have ul-Haq as their last names?

Originally Posted by Maranello

This naming practice is quite common in Pakistan and in the rest of the sub-continent, and is distinct and different from the normal Mid-Eastern convention of using family names or the Western norm of surnames.

Is that naormal in Mid-Eastern countries? I always thought they used bin/ibn and after their fist name and used their father's first name as their last names, like A bin B or something like that.

[Rachael]

This thread could get quite interesting shortly... the WAT grand survery of, and guide to, everything you always wanted to know and were too embarassed to ask about why it's a damn nightmare working out who's being talked about when following discussions of Pakistan's less well known (especially up and coming) cricketers.

The basics I've got... but when you see a player referred to by any two of three names... and with one of the names used as a second name in one instance and as an initial name in another.. I just keep my fingers crossed that Zainub isn't going to make matters worse by coming out with nick names :-)

[Zainub]

I just keep my fingers crossed that Zainub isn't going to make matters worse by coming out with nick names :-)

Aha! What a splendid idea Rachael!