Wavell Hinds retires from WI cricket

[jrwb]

I should add that by referring to low standards, I refer to cricket standards - so let's not take umbrage at that...

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by jrwb

I have no idea why Ninjaman is going on and on about Ganga and Hinds - they are both inferior test players playing on a side that will take anybody.

No disagreement from me on that regard.

My point was not to highlight Hinds as a superstar but to highlight your disparaging send off to Hinds in comparison to you relative praise for Ganga, an inferior player.

And for goodness' sake, don't use that word 'potential' to me - men have been playing for the WI for years and been described as having potential - so when does this potential turn in to real and lasting ability? Sarwan has been playing for the West Indies for years, and he still averages well under forty, and people still talk of potential.

Haha!

You really should remember what you posted before.

I only mentioned Hinds' potential because YOU mentioned Ganga's potential.

I quote:

As for Ganga - he demonstrated outstanding potential when he scored centuries in consecutive tests against Australia of all people, and I believe the environment of a bunch of losers like the West Indian team has done much harm to his confidence and ability. Not having close contact with him and his team, it is difficult to ascertain this as a fact.

Here you were waxing lyrical about his potential and when I mention another poor player who had superior potential, you take umbrage about the word "potential".

Let us not even mention all the concessions you are willing to give Ganga about harm to his confidence and ability which you admit you can't even ascertain is a fact. Oh yes, Ganga has potential and failed because he was surrounded by losers. Who is the one looking for excuses?

Especially considering no other batsman has been given more chances and support in this WI make up to succeed and fail so miserably.

The man was even made captain.

I suppose people like you and others have to cling to that type of player and praise them because their standards are low, and correspondingly their supporters' standards are also low - a score of 35 from these guys is an excuse to pop the champagne...

Of course it isn't. However, I will support them regardless of what score or how good they are and I will, however poor their performance, acknowledge their effort if I feel, as I do in most cases, it was the best they could do.

But what I won't do is bid them a rude, in my opinion, good riddance when they decide to give p on playing for the WI which i know they actuallu like doing and have to start thinking about taking contracts to feed their family.

[jrwb]

Sometimes I wonder if Ninjaman isn't a lawyer. I did refer to potential with regard to Ganga but I was taking the view that at the time he hadn't played that much for the West Indies and the word potential was suitable in that instance.

I believe a cricketer is very much a public figure and criticism or insults directed at his game are perfectly in order - one demonstrates maturity if this type of criticism is taken in the spirit it is given. I heard one commentator describe Angus Fraser as a 'camel' in the field, and the first time Chanderpaul played for the WI, Boycott being very uncharitable in his remarks.

Another thing I am saying is this lack of test talent may not be the only major problem of the West Indians and I also wonder about mental talent or discipline in the light of Cozier's remarks during the last World Cup - these fellas appear to be lacking in basic discipline. I have lived in the West Indies all my life, and there can be a mentality here of 'I've made it and that's that...'

[Milo]

Of all the West Indian batsmen I've seen over the last ten years (and I've seen them all at international level), Wavell Hinds is one of the best (he's cetainly a lot better than Clayton Lambert and Phillo Wallace). I know it is wrong to always talk about the past, but there are some players (the two most being Hooper and Lara) who would have achieved even more (in Lara's case I know it is hard to imagine) had they played under the Lloyd era.

Hinds scored back to back centuries against Australia in LOI internationals, his test centuries have been against good bowling attacks. His career is a huge disappointment. He's not alone , unfortunately.

[jrwb]

Best of a bad lot and all that...

[Aurelius]

Originally Posted by jrwb

Best of a bad lot and all that...

Aha! So you acknowledge that he should have played more often!

[Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Milo

Of all the West Indian batsmen I've seen over the last ten years (and I've seen them all at international level), Wavell Hinds is one of the best...

Especially among the openers. His average was fairly low at 33. However, it was still higher than Campbell's (32) Ganga's (27) Devon Smith's (24) Stuart Williams (24), and as you say, Wallace and Lambert. In fact, since Haynes and Richardson retired, only Gayle (38) has done better. Now I'm not going to pretend that he was anything more than a reasonable Test batsman, but the fact that so many others were preferred to him is bizarre.

Well, not if you know selectors, that is.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by jrwb

Sometimes I wonder if Ninjaman isn't a lawyer. I did refer to potential with regard to Ganga but I was taking the view that at the time he hadn't played that much for the West Indies and the word potential was suitable in that instance.

I'm not a lawyer. I was never really concerned with the word potential or how it was mentioned. Just don;'t take issue when I refer to another player's potential in the more or less the same context.

Originally Posted by Aurelius

Aha! So you acknowledge that he should have played more often!

Haha!

[jrwb]

I know that we are supposed to discuss test cricket in this forum, but I wonder how we spend so much time analyzing the careers of cricketers who are going to be quickly forgotton when their playing days are over - unless they decide to involve themselves in some other aspect of cricket, like commentary, for example.

Wavell Hinds is not going to be remembered by anybody... and I dare any of you to say otherwise!

I know Ninjaman and Aurelius are simply dying to counter that remark - so come on boys - have a go...!

[jrwb]

Doesn't anybody talk about the history of cricket in these forums? I would love to have some really interesting chats about real cricketers who've really made their mark - Larwood - Barnes - Shrewsbury - Spofforth - Hobbs - Headley - Tyson - Hutton - Compton - Griffith - Kallicharran - Tate - Lillee - Roberts - Kortright - Constantine - anyone up to it?????????