Who is the best WI pace bowler since Walsh and Ambrose?

[Ninjaman]

Question for those who frequent this quiet place that is the WI forum.

Who would you say is the best WI pace bowler since Walsh and Ambrose?

Obviously a cut off point has to be had so anyone from Patterson Thompson onwards qualifies.

So that includes:

PIC Thompson
FA Rose
M Dillon
NAM McLean
RD King
PT Collins
CD Collymore
MI Black
CEL Stuart
A Sanford
DB Powell
JJC Lawson
VC Drakes
TL Best
JE Taylor
FH Edwards
DJ Bravo
DM Washington
IDR Bradshaw

Who would be your pick?

[Rachael]

Great thread-starter

The most consistently under-rated on that list would surely be Collins and Collymore: guys without the huge talents of the WI greats who've made the most of what they have got. Ona horses for courses basis, Collins has surely shown himself able to match the best on that list when there's a chance to swing the new-ish ball... and Collymore (aside from having been THE model of discipline and graft) has been second to none when there's a bit of movement off the pitch to exploit.

In terms of talent and wicket-taking ability in unhelpful conditions I'd be inclined to see the leading candidates as Taylor.. but rating a player that highly when he's just 22 (with just 10 Tests under his belt) could be considered irresponsible.

Inclination says Collymore has done more to carry WI cricket through the dark days since the disappearance of Ambrose and Walsh.. and that until one of the others does a little more... he's fully deserving of my vote on this poll... but I'll hold back from committing myself at this point - I don't see this as a clearcut matter!

[Andy Mellon]

I'm with you on this one Rachael - its a very tough choice.

Collymore has been an important bowler for the Windies as he makes scoring difficult and puts pressure on the batsmen to score at the other end. Unfortunately, he's often proved too good to induce edges and failed to take the wickets he's deserved. The other problem is that on some occasions, the bowler at the other end hasn't been able to sustain the pressure Collymore's created and thus whilst some combinations in world cricket (e.g. Bond/Franklin) see pressure at one end create wickets at the other, this hasn't been quite the case for Collymore.

Of the other bowlers, Fidel Edwards and Jerome Taylor seem the most dangerous in terms of wicket taking ability. Edwards has an important ability of being able to rip out tail enders cheaply with his unusual 'slingy' bowling action. As recent test series have proved (SA vs Pak, Aus vs Eng) tail end runs can be invaluable and Edwards seems better than most at extracting these wickets. Top order batsman seem more able to cope with his action and to my mind he becomes a little expensive and doesn't have the variations or accuracy to trouble good top order batsmen when plan 'A' fails. Also, injuries seem to have occasionally restricted him from getting into a good run of form.

Jerome Taylor seems to be the big hope at the moment, taking wickets throughout the batting order; but to be honest I haven't seen enough of him to pass comment.

Most of those other names in the list were not dangerous, highly erratic or both. Collins is probably the best of these, and Bravo next best on a helpful pitch.

Bradshaw seems a good ODI player, but not quite so successful in test matches. I'd also like to see a few more expressions from Bradshaw to show he actually enjoys it. Even Ambrose (who apparently isn't a fan of cricket) had those beaming smiles when he bowled a great delivery that was somehow missed by the batsman - I'd like to see something similar from Bradshaw as he looks so dour.

[Milo]

Two good assessments, can't argue with them at all. Collins and Collymore have been the most consistent WI performers of the last five years. They have turned in good performances for Barbados this week also (in fact Collins has bowled well all year - but so has Lawson)

I started a thread a couple of years ago on Taylor. I'd seen him bowl against Sri Lanka (prior to his injury in Zimbabwe). I think he is the best they have had, and if he can remain fit (he actually went and got inured after I posted the thread about his inclusion in the India test squad 2005) he will be the best they've had - if he is not already.

[Teatime FatCat]

Taylor for wickets Bradshaw for ODI's

[mikesiva]

Clearly, none of these bowlers are anywhere near the class of Ambrose and Walsh!

Rose had the most potential. I still remember his six-wicket haul on his debut against India at Sabina Park. But he lacked discipline, unfortuantely....

I suppose Collymore comes closest. taylor has potential, but will we be as enamoured with him in two years' time, or will we be talking about him in tones of exasperation, as we do about Edwards and Best?

[Aussie-Yank]

To me the players that have come forth from West Indies since Marshall and Ambrose have been dissappointing in the whole.

I am not sure if it is a case of being spoilt and growing up watching the likes of Garner, Roberts, Holding, Marshal, Ambrose, etc.. or the West Indies mentoring system has changed since then and only mediocrity has risen since. Maybe it is the pitch's and these bowlers are just as good as the ones from there past glory days, but have less wickets to show for it due to unhelpfull pitchs.

To me, I miss the 4 pronged pace battery that the Windies would bring and see how well our batsman could go against them - scoring a hundred against the might of the Windies bowling was a hundred worth seeing.

So on that note - The bowler that has impressed me out of the list (But a pale selection against the great West Indies bowlers of the past) would be Collymore.

[greg]

I guess you have to say Collymore but Lawson has the potential to be a top bowler should he stay free of injury.It just shows the lack of depth though that someone as average as Edwards has been played as often as he has,he is only just better than Tino Best who is one of the worst pace bowlers i have ever seen play international cricket.

[mikesiva]

I totally agree with you about Best and Edwards, greg....

It's a pity the Windies selectors don't have much faith in Lawson. he's playing for Jamaica in the regional competition, and he's taking wickets, but he just can't get a look-in, for some obscure reason!

[Nostromo]

There have been quite a few like Mervyn Dillon, Jermaine Lawson, Fidel Edwards etc who have flattered to deceive in the last decade. The likes of Bradshaw and Collymore are good enough for ODI level, but not really talented enough to become world class Tets bowlers. The one who seems to be showing more promise than most is Jerome Taylor, but he is still young; time will tell.

We were holidaying in the Caribbean a couple of years ago and the contracted driver of our car was a long term fan of West Indian cricket. He told me that there was increasing loss of interest in playing cricket among school kids (in the past, school cricket played a very important part in shaping future players in the Caribbean) due to a variety of reasons. In Jamaica for example, many youngsters prefer soccer because of a better financial incentive later. I hope that a good WI performance in this World Cup might turn things around a bit. Unfortunately, with their weak bowling attack, the Windies don't stand much of a chance.

It is sad really, because in the past good touring West Indian teams have been popular even when they were thrashing home teams silly. They brought that much needed colour and verve into the game.