hardhitters

[shem01]

who do you think are the westindies big hitters at the moment, meaning guys still around.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by shem01

who do you think are the westindies big hitters at the moment

Simon Hughes' article in today's Daily Telegraph notes that the 1976 side that made England "grovel" contained eight players with County Cricket experience.. suggests County Cricket was the "finishing school" of those great players... and notes that of the current crew, only Bravo and Collymore have had extended spells in the English domestic game. He sees a direct correlation with who has stood up to be counted in the series to date: Collymore and Bravo.

League sides over here are apparently looking to hard-working Australians or South Africans as their overseas pros rather than to WI players "who have a reputation for being unreliable": harsh, and generalisation that must surely hide huge variations... but a comment that chimes with what many WI commentators have been saying of the current generation of WI Test players - that they are soft, are lacking in discipline, do not put the work in and rely on talent alone without recognising the extent to which application, hard-earned experience and so on make the difference between talented wastrels and genuine Test players.

In short, the "big hitters" of the WI side (meaning the guys who wil stand up and be counted) are currently the likes of Bravo, Collymore, Chanderpaul and Collins... and emphatically NOT the likes of Gayle (hugely talented though he is) or the assorted speedsters who seem to lack any interest in mastering their craft and bowling to plans.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Rachael

Simon Hughes' article in today's Daily Telegraph notes that the 1976 side that made England "grovel" contained eight players with County Cricket experience.. suggests County Cricket was the "finishing school" of those great players... and notes that of the current crew, only Bravo and Collymore have had extended spells in the English domestic game. He sees a direct correlation with who has stood up to be counted in the series to date: Collymore and Bravo.

Collymore has just 6 wickets at 46.

If that's classed as standing up to be counted then therein lies one of our problems.

And highlights one of the problems I've mentioned on this board many times: the celebration of mediocrity as success.

But I'm glad that the lack of avenues to further ones craft, learn to perform for your pay and exposure to knew experiences, people, scenarios etc... is being mentioned now.

How long did they persist with the silly basketball, no one is interested and Lara should miraculously make wastrels be 50 plus and sub 30 batsmen and bowlers?

League sides over here are apparently looking to hard-working Australians or South Africans as their overseas pros rather than to WI players "who have a reputation for being unreliable": harsh, and generalisation that must surely hide huge variations...

The generalisation being that West Indians are not hardworking, of course. I'm surprised the words laidback, cool and the other patronising terms are used. In the year Lara hit 501, 13 of the 18 counties had WI overseas players. Apparently, 13 years later the hardworking gene has evolved into something else.

Then WI were top of the pile, now Australia are. Furthermore, a lot more Australians and South Africans with a deeper, more schooled background to the game are actively seeking games in England. The lack of that background is what has caused the WI decline. Plus a lot more Aussies and Saffers are going down Kolpak routes and residency routes than West Indians.

Everything goes together.

Add in to that the deliberate steps to limit the number of West Indians in the English game that were taken.

but a comment that chimes with what many WI commentators have been saying of the current generation of WI Test players - that they are soft, are lacking in discipline, do not put the work in and rely on talent alone without recognising the extent to which application, hard-earned experience and so on make the difference between talented wastrels and genuine Test players.

They are always going to rely on talent because they've developed under a system that has relied on that only.

All of these guys have got where they are mainly due to talent.

We can't blame them for that now can we.

They are only doing what is expected of them. This would be an issue if we were talking about Australians or Englishmen with the resources, training and academy system and quite clear career progression path laid out for them if they want to make it.

These unquantifiable values like discipline, passion and pride are always mentioned when teams are down because they easily roll off the tongue.

At the end of the day, to use a hackneyed phrase, our players lack the consistent execution of the basics of the game.

This highlights that from early days to becoming Test players they've been allowed to continue doing things the wrong way.

Gayle is leaden footed. This could have been corrected years ago buit old habits now die hard.
Ganga can destroy any attack a few classes down. He has the technique but gets sqaured up easily and goes fishing. Plus he used to have uncle Joey Carew as a selector to help him
Devon Smith used to be known as a sticker as a boy. He would bat and bat all day but make not many runs. Now he is always forcing the drive and getting out caught somewhere between square on the offside and the keeper.
Sarwan regularly got out hooking and for well pitched up balls gets squared up too often.
Sylvester Joseph is a marginally better bat than the cat his namesake.
Marlon Samuels is very talented. His nickname is "Elegance" but is woefully inconsistent. Like Gayle, one of his idols is Carl Hooper. Elegant and inconsistent, You couldn't make it up!!
Bravo's idol, mentor and friend is Lara. Some of those shots off Panesar were Lara-like. Especially the six.

Afro-Caribbean people are more susceptible to high blood pressure than most people. So I won't bother talking about the bowlers!!!

I'm not looking for any of these players to be part of the WI renaissance. Sadly, they must be the lost generation that our cricket administration failed.

The steps needed to bring new life to WI cricket will benefit the players of around 15 years and younger if not even a few years younger than that.