Where to now for WI?

[Ernest]

I dont know, batting wise they have one or two really good players, Sarwan, lara (not captain} Gayle,and this new lad Baugh, lots of potential, it only needs Lara to step down, and Logi to go, and they could soon sort themselves out, there is a lot of talent, not pulling together, IMO that is the problem.

[Goatman]

Management wise I think they could do a lot worse than to wrest Clive Lloyd back from ICC. I would give him absolute power, in the Clive Woodward mould for ENG rugby, and a few years to turn things around. He certainly commands respect from all the Island boards and the players, past and present, and he has before turned a talented group of entertainers into a fairly decent outfit that won a few tests.....

[Glamorgan Wanderer]

That's an interesting idea Goatman, but he still comes from within the WI system and has an affiliation to one of the islands. I still think that they would be better off appointing a foreign supremo.

Rachael - why don't you like Fletcher? Under his control (and certainly not despite his control) England have become a far better side (and I am talking over a considerable period of time, not just in relation to the current run of success).

[Ernest]

I agree Goatman, I think Clive Lloyd given absolute power, would turn the Windies round, and get rid af all those who stink of failure

That would mean Lara could not be captain!

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Glamorgan Wanderer

That's an interesting idea Goatman, but he still comes from within the WI system and has an affiliation to one of the islands. I still think that they would be better off appointing a foreign supremo.

Yes, he is flawed as any WI selection would be. However, it could be argued that his status as near-as-dammit demi-God in the Carribbean may be able to overcome that, especially if he gets a few results (again). There is no foreign coach that could command the kind of respect he can, and they're going to need every bit of influence they can get! its going to take strong leadership to turn the WI ship around - whoever it is that does the job, they will have thier job cut out to get everyone on side! Also, Lloyd comes with a reputation as a hard task master - he didn't settle for second best in his own day, and the team under him will know what to expect when he comes into the structure. A foreigner would, in many ways, be at an advantage, but they would also be an unknown and WI cricket supporters and players might feel reassured to see someone they know at the helm.

Lloyd is a different case to Viv Richards, I think, who has failed to unify the structure as chairman, dispite stellar status in the WI. Viv was a great player, and a good captain but he did so by being alpha-male. Lloyd was a good player and a great captain and did so by commanding even more absolute respect than Richards could, without resorting to the machismo. To quote the Cricinfo homage to Lloyd:-

"Some may say his job as captain was fairly straightforward: with a battery of fast bowlers including Roberts, Marshall, Garner, Holding and Croft at his command, and batsmen of the calibre of Greenidge, Haynes and Richards, he certainly had some handy players to call upon. But he instilled his talented side with the professionalism and determination to win consistently and when the conditions suited the opposition. He united the disparate threads of the separate nations that make up the West Indies, and was the force that gelled them as a team rather than a bunch of talented individuals."

For me, there is only one man for the job. But then, I come from Yorkshire not Jamaica so what do I know.......

[Glamorgan Wanderer]

Agree with all that you say - however, the fact that he has done the job before (twice?) would also count against him. He has also been quite outspoken about the way he was treated by the WICB and I'm not sure the two would sit easily together. They certainly wouldn't grant him the kind of absolute authority he would need.

As an outside bet, what about Rod Marsh? A guy who has done it at the highest level, is recognised as being a good coach, has a good record of developing young players and takes no nonsense from anyone.

It seems to me that some of the young WI players think even more of themselves than our young county pros with their sponsored cars etc and we all know what happened to the players who went to our academy and didn't put in the required effort - they were never seen again in an international context unless and until they sorted their act out.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Glamorgan Wanderer

As an outside bet, what about Rod Marsh? A guy who has done it at the highest level, is recognised as being a good coach, has a good record of developing young players and takes no nonsense from anyone.

Well Marsh is contracted to England, and with a bit of luck in the not to distent future he will be a more important figure here, I disagree with one thing you say, he took some **** of Fletcher in the Read/Jones affair

[Glamorgan Wanderer]

Originally Posted by ernest

Well Marsh is contracted to England, and with a bit of luck in the not to distent future he will be a more important figure here, I disagree with one thing you say, he took some **** of Fletcher in the Read/Jones affair

I am quite happy to have Marsh involved in the England set up. However, I'm not sure that I would want him as coach/manager of the first XI - one of the things I like about Fletcher is that he is happy to work in the background allowing the Captain to be the figurehead of the team. I'm not sure that Marsh would do that, and I also think that his presence in the dressing room might affect the way in which the team has pulled together in recent times. You also have to remember that a lot of the current side are 'Fletcher' players and may not take too kindly to his replacement.

In any event, what has Fletcher done wrong to merit his removal?

[Richard Jenkins]

Sucess is more difficult to deal with than failure. if you fail, it's hard chips the first time, but everyone's expectations go down. then when/if you fail again, people say' oh well, it's (insert your team) usual performance so no change there. If you carry on failing, then it becomes a hard habit to shift; Also, failure is instant, you fail and it's finished; Success is all together different. if one succeds, then people's estimations go up, to the point of this year (insert your team) will win the (insert tournament of your choice). Success does breed success, and it attracts people to a sport and sponsers. However, expectations sometimes aren't realistic, and it's only when one faces the toughesttests that one discovers the real value of success.

How do WI get out of the spiral of failure; Well they have to start small. In the up and coming ODI ICCCT tournament, they have to say' well lets try and win a game whatever the toss is, and win it well.' from there, they can build. Certaily we all seem to thin Lara will /should/must go as skipper, and there are various suggetsions as to who next.

Whatever happens, the WI need to come together and forget island mentalities and build for the future. At a time when socioeconomic factors such as baseball wages/basketball wages/drug cultures and the loss of status of cricket in the carribean come into play, it is vital that the WI comes out of this period stonger.
It certainly puts world cricket into perspective. from 1980 to 1990, WI were undoubtedly a force , perhaps even the best team; look at the talent generated in this time.
LLoyd, Walsh, Ambrose, Richards, Holding, Marhall, (I could go on), all international superstars of cricket.
Then the Aussies from 1990 till today. In a few years time thier team will be a fondly remembered age of superstars.
Who next? England?, Sri lanka, India, South Africa, Pakistan?

England went through a period of failure and it's only now, when we win seven tests on the trot that people start to believe. However, we must be careful. South Africa at home will be no walk over, and before we all write off the West Indies, loook at englands performance under Nassar Hussain early doors.
The West indies do need to look deep inside and find a reason to win , even if it's 'I don't want to lose against a team with some one as cr@p as XYZ in it so i'm going to perform'
Once you've won once, the taste becomes a good one. Only three/four/five years ago England were the laughing stock of world test cricket. Today, we could win the ashes .

Where to now for the WI? Infrastructure and youth seem strong points, and lara should stay in the team, as seven lads under 25 ish is lots. Perhaps in 3/4/5 years, WI will once again be world beaters.

never kick a side when their down. They might get up again!

[Goatman]

Originally Posted by Richard Jenkins

never kick a side when their down. They might get up again!

Thats one of RBLC's motto's too. He advocates stamping on thier throats, handcuffing them to a park bench and throwing them in the river Don apparently.......