West Indies Tailenders

[Rob.]

Hoggards a rubbish batsman. The Windies should be highly embarrased about the amount of time he spent at the crease against them, never mind the runs he scored. He was put in his place in South Africa.

At least Simon Jones and Steve Harmison can have a swing and gain runs that way, but Hoggard just sticks around for a jolly 15 minutes then gets out. Waste of time.

He wouldn't last five minutes as nightwatchman against Australia, we should ditch the nightwatchman idea altogether unless the situation is really desperate.

[vvvrulz]

As Virender Sehwag once quoted towards having a nightwatchman...

"If I can't last 10 minutes out there, i'm not a batsman"

[Lemming]

That's a good argument of course. A specialist batsman is obviously better equipped than the tailender nightwatchman to stay out there, and I agree that the openers should always open the innings unless you need quick runs and Mark Richardson's batting for example.

In the case of a nightwatchman protecting a middle-order batsman, I've rarely not seen it work. It's always nice to see the nightwatchman come out and bat out the day then start the next looking to make runs and hanging around for half-an-hour.

I think nightwatchmen work on the whole, and the specialist can come out with a whole day ahead of him to build his innings the next day.

[Mongoose]

I think the nightwatchman can be effective. Not necessarily through scoring 30-odd himself, but, as Lemming says, by hanging around for a while in the morning. The fielding team wants to remove the nightwatchman within the first 3-4 overs in the morning. So if he's still there after 50 minutes, it deflates the fielding team and gives the batters a psychological boost.

I think Hoggard plays the role well for England. He's got as much attacking flair as Boycott trying to save a match AND protect his average, but his defence isn't all that bad these days. Thinking about the West Indies tail, they could learn from Hoggard. They show a lack of application and don't seem to take batting seriously. I mean, come on, it's saying something when you get out to a mad swipe, when one of the opposition says to you 'Come on Tino. which window are you gonna hit?'

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Mongoose

They show a lack of application and don't seem to take batting seriously. I mean, come on, it's saying something when you get out to a mad swipe, when one of the opposition says to you 'Come on Tino. which window are you gonna hit?'

That's because Tino Best is an idiot, plain and simple.

And he is only encouraged when people excuse him as being passionate and promising when in fact, he's crazy!!

[Zainub]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

People like Warne, Gillespie and Giles all have a bit more about them then you appear willing to give them credit for.

Giles is not a tail ender, he's a decent test number 8. I don't call that tail. I don't even consider Warnie as a tail ender, he hit a hundred for Hampshire this season, and has the most runs of all test batsmen that have not scored a century. These guys can bat. They have all the shots (most of 'em anyway) of proper top order batsmen. That's for me the difference between tail end and normal batsmen - the shots they play, and the deliveries them play them off. That's why even though Harmison and Shoaib can hit sixes and some quick runs, they aren't batters, and that's why Gellispie, Hoggard and Sami, all of whom can 'hang around', aren't batters. The former are a brand of shot playing tail enders, the later of blocking tail enders. Contrary to them the likes of Warnie and Giles are decent "batsmen", who have a reasonable level of both the two component of batting, defensive technique and attacking shots.

[vvvrulz]

Agreed, and then of course you get the third catergory... those who can't do either.

Like Chris Martin...

[Zainub]

and Nanny Danny.

[Mongoose]

Courtney Walsh was my favourite tail-ender to watch. He had a defensive shot that looked like he was break-dancing. He some how ended up facing chest-on down the wicket, a foot aoutside off stump, with both arms out to the sides. You expected a wicket every ball when big Courtney was batting ...

[Paoli]

I'll never forget on the Windies disastrous tour of Australia in 00-01 (they lost to a Northern Territory Minister's XI!), that big Courtney shuffled heaps.

Ridley Jacobs, on a grand 96 not out at the WACA, was destined for his first century. Marlon Black gets bowled and big CA Walsh arrives. First ball, misses the off stump by an inch as Courtney shuffled. The next ball, Courtney's bat is above the ball and he is yorked. Classic stuff!