The problems with West Indian cricket

[Beny]

Originally Posted by Cric Info

Not long after West Indies' heavy loss to Australia in the first Test on November 6, among the first words heard in a dejected dressing room were those of encouragement from Courntey Walsh, the former West Indian captain.

Walsh was asked by coach Bennett King to lift the gloom with his presence and his support. "I was happy to have the chance to go to talk with the team," said Walsh, now in Australia on a coaching and speaking tour. "It's easier for someone who is not playing to try to talk to them rather than someone who is playing and I just tried to encourage them."

I feel a bit sorry for the WI at the momment... There really is so much potential in that side and all they need is a few lucky breaks. Fidel Edward's bowling seemed to sum up their problem. The young quicky bowled fast and on a good length, perhaps only failing to make the batsmen play as much as he should, unfortunetly for him though he missed out on getting some wickets and as he started to get belted around by a rampaging Aussie batting line-up his confidence dropped and he lost concentration.

A young and inexperianced side could find better opponents to grind their teeth on than Australia who'll have no qualms about kicking the corpse.

It would be a pitty if the Edwards' and the Powell's of this team never recovered from this hammering.

On another note, what about the system? There is much talk of a lack of unity amoung the Islands and the lack of a system which really challanges the younger players to lift themselves. The same is being said of Australian cricket nowdays- that the higtened age of retierment and the lack of oppertunity for young players to enter first-class cricket is holding people back, and according to many WI pundits creating a generation of overconfident young cricketers who think that because they can belt around an u/19 attack, cricket is easy.

The simple fact of the matter is that WI cricket is producing hugely talented young players and yet is failing to win tests. For some this is because of the Chris Gayle attitude- lazy! and for others it is the failings of an inadaquate system which the WICB cannot afford to change. Either way what is undeniable is that World cricket is missing out from having a West Indes team of world-beaters.

[Mike]

Beny, losing teaches you more about your game and temperament than winning. Nobody likes to lose but as long as the individual players feel within themselves that they are gradually adapting to Test cricket then there is reason for optimism.

The system back in the West Indies is another matter and producing a winning team should come before politics. The administrators should look at the system and try and root out areas where politics is interfering with good management. Are the West Indies fringe players getting enough cricket in the off season? It's important that they do to put pressure on the encumbant Test players. Perhaps some of the current Test players are lazy because they don't feel their place in the side is threatened. These senior players need to stay hungry. It's up to management to ensure they do.

[Beny]

I think failing teaches you about your game, getting smashed by 300+ runs over a long period of time is a different matter though.

[Vrock]

I agree. I can't see how they're ever going to get off their feet before the politics is sorted. Once they get the sponsorship rows sorted they can look to get West Indies cricket back to a respectable level.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Beny

I feel a bit sorry for the WI at the momment...

Don't

There really is so much potential in that side and all they need is a few lucky breaks.

They need far far more than that.

A young and inexperianced side could find better opponents to grind their teeth on than Australia who'll have no qualms about kicking the corpse.

It would be a pitty if the Edwards' and the Powell's of this team never recovered from this hammering.

If they were of the correct mental attitude they'd learn from it and use it to fuel a drive to improve, if they can't recover from it then, we know something about them then.

On another note, what about the system? There is much talk of a lack of unity amoung the Islands and the lack of a system which really challanges the younger players to lift themselves. The same is being said of Australian cricket nowdays- that the higtened age of retierment and the lack of oppertunity for young players to enter first-class cricket is holding people back, and according to many WI pundits creating a generation of overconfident young cricketers who think that because they can belt around an u/19 attack, cricket is easy.

It is not overconfident players it produces it is woefully inadequate players who dominate a set up of weak players and are ordained as stars who then don't feel they need to work on anything.

The simple fact of the matter is that WI cricket is producing hugely talented young players and yet is failing to win tests. For some this is because of the Chris Gayle attitude- lazy! and for others it is the failings of an inadaquate system which the WICB cannot afford to change. Either way what is undeniable is that World cricket is missing out from having a West Indes team of world-beaters.

I would rather blame a system than one player.

Gayle is a product of the system that created him.

That system is not producing any players to challenge his spot. No external pressure

When asked about his poor footwork, his response was, " I don't need to move my footwork."

That's not lazy, that's ignorant.

And he'll continue how he plays because he has no incentive to do better.

Back 20 years ago with all the same issues of inter-island rivalry etc.. the WI team succeeded because if Viv, Greenidge, Marshall and co. messed up there would be someone else waiting to take their spot who might not give it back.

Coupled with people telling him that he is "as good as Lara" (No laughing at the back!) , can you really expect the guy to think he's made it.

When Zimbabwe or Bangladesh get hammered, people full acknowledge the #1 main reason i.e. they ain't good enough.

Yet WI lose we here so many comments about them being lazy, loving the bling and all the other WI stereotypes.

Those of us from the WI know the reason, we are NOT GOOD ENOUGH and it is not an issue of a luck break and one win to turn the corner.

Until we overhaul our system to produce proper cricketers.

I do believe players need to look at themselves but ultimately a large part of me is not surprised with what happens to our side because we've only set up a system to produce what we are actually producing.

[Paoli]

I think the Windies are good enough Ninjaman...you've got several batsmen averaging over 40...do Zimbabwe or Bangladesh have that? No. There are several bowlers bowling upwards of 140kmh. Do Zimbabwe or Bangladesh have that? No.

The Windies are one of the most talented cricketing nations around. I don't see why you diss them, Ninja. Just the facilities aren't in place. When Shiv Chanderpaul was in Australia last time, he said. "When it's raining here you go inside and get bowled at by a ball machine...back home we don't have that". Maybe that Texan will put some money in to the game.

[Rachael]

Originally Posted by Beny

Fidel Edward's bowling seemed to sum up their problem. The young quicky bowled fast and on a good length, perhaps only failing to make the batsmen play as much as he should

That's like saying a batsman consistently displayed great footwork and technique but constantly missed the ball due to playing the wrong line or not picking the deliveries: there's hardly a worse criticism you can make of a bowler than that he failed to make the batsmen play the ball enough! It's the sign of rank incompetence!

Edwards isn't without SOME promise.. but let's get this in perspective: he's got no more promise than the young bowlers in Pakistan who just took England apart... or Tait, whose baptism in English county cricket placed his claims in proper perspective. Would a county want to sign Edwards as an overseas player? In extremis, yes, but they would rather, I suspect, sign Collymore or Collins... or Zoysa... or Langvedt... or Umar Gul... or Shabbir Ahmed.

These young WI bowlers could seriously benefit from 3-4 years in county cricket... but it ain't happening... and it's going to take the new coach a long time to achieve in other ways the development they could all manage ina seriously competitive and professional domestic side.

[Ninjaman]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

I think the Windies are good enough Ninjaman...you've got several batsmen averaging over 40...do Zimbabwe or Bangladesh have that? No. There are several bowlers bowling upwards of 140kmh. Do Zimbabwe or Bangladesh have that? No.

Hi Paoli, I am fully aware that WI have 3 batsmen who average over 40 with one just below that mark. I am also aware of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe not having any.

I am also aware of the ponential speeds some of our bowlers can acheive but I am also aware that whilst pace used effectively is a potent weapon, I am aware that all of our bowlers are not consistent enough. I would rather ahve a bowler bowling tight, wicket taking stuff at 75-85 mph than one bowling dross with the occasional good ball at 85-95mph.

I have never been in doubt about the talent of the players in the WI team./squad.

But I have also never been in doubt about the fact that talent alone will not make you a Test player.

I could stay here all day with you and talk about talented 14-18 year old I have seen at cricket (and football too).

And then what happens to those guys later on when they fail to get the support in "stepping up"??

Marlon Samuels is extremely talented.

Dwayne Smith is dripping with talent. So much that, in fact, when he gets out bowled or lbw hitting across the line again and again, it can drive a big man to tears.

But you can't blame him fully as as much as he trains, the FC cricket he faces is not demanding enough to punish him continually for this defect as international cricket is.

The list of talented young WI cricketers who hit the scene and are called "the future" is there to see.

Ricardo Powell and Marlon Samuels hit 100s vs India and looked promising.

Bravo was promising and where is he now.

Edwards looked promising. Lawson looked promising once.

When I say these guys are not good enough. I am not saying they can't play but they are not good enough to consistently maintain the high standard needed to succeed at the highest level.

A team that gets relegated from the Premier League may have talent in it, but over the season, they were not good enough for the task of staying up.

The same can be said for WI with regards to being a consistently competent Test side.

They may "win" a session or have a good day's cricket but very rarely will they be able to string it together for a whole game.

I am not dissing them, I am calling it as I see it.

The Windies are one of the most talented cricketing nations around. I don't see why you diss them, Ninja. Just the facilities aren't in place. When Shiv Chanderpaul was in Australia last time, he said. "When it's raining here you go inside and get bowled at by a ball machine...back home we don't have that". Maybe that Texan will put some money in to the game.

First off, the WI board has had loads of money in its time and somehow wastes it.

I will leave it there lest W-A-T be sued

Now, whose fault is it that there are hardly any bowling machines in the WI???

You are countering an argument I have never made.

As I say above, I have always admitted I have seen talent in WI players (at all levels) but not the requisite amount of SUPPORT for them needed to move an "aspiring amatuer" to a "proficient professional".

I have stated many times before on this board of a lack of facilities and lack of structure to the game.

And I also have been critical of people who resort to the false "everyone is into American sports" and "the players are more concerned with bling than the win" arguments because not only are they patronising and woefully steroetypical, they allow those who should be put on the rack i.e. the administrators etc.. to hide behind these excuses, which is what they are, and do very little.

And if Mr Stanford does bring much needed funds into the game, I do hope it trickles through to those who need it and is used wisely, however, i won't jump up and done until I see it as the history of West Indian people is littered with foreigners bearing gifts and promises that fail to materialise into anything positive.

[Vrock]

I think that the Windies should follow in the footsteps of England, consistent selection. Apart from the obvious, for a whole test series select a side then stick with that side(injury dependant) and see how that works.

[Beny]

there's hardly a worse criticism you can make of a bowler than that he failed to make the batsmen play the ball enough! It's the sign of rank incompetence!

My oppinion would be that Edwards is not the compleate bowler, he is quick and has control however he does'nt quite understand bowling as an art-form yet.
ODI cricket is probebly not helping his cause as he'd undoubtobly be much more sucsessfull when people are willing to play at balls wide of off stump.
I think he'll come good but it will take time and hard work.

It is not overconfident players it produces it is woefully inadequate players who dominate a set up of weak players and are ordained as stars who then don't feel they need to work on anything.

So overconfident players...

Those of us from the WI know the reason, we are NOT GOOD ENOUGH and it is not an issue of a luck break and one win to turn the corner.

No, you're not yet but you could be. From all acounts I've heard, Aussie coaches who go over to WI are amazed at the talent around. As Poali points out the WI team at the momment contains two world XI batsmen, a heap of promising young recruits and a few champions like Sarwan and Chandapaull. There are bowlers coming out who can bowl 140 km/h + on a length with good control... No there is plenty of talent there.

The only thing holding them back is team unity, experiance and a good mental attitude. In my oppinion their Aussie coach can help bring about two of those but it is up to the individual to take care of the rest.

But you can't blame him fully as as much as he trains, the FC cricket he faces is not demanding enough to punish him continually for this defect as international cricket is.

So why ar'nt the WI players going to England? Surely the young kids could be even if the likes of Smith are too busy on Int. Duty.


What about Chand? I can't really see him as captain material- about as inspiring as 'droopy' and not quite as funny. I say give Lara back the captaincy, dont let him run from the challange. If WI cricket is going to work then he needs to be inolved.

BTW What language do the WI islands speak? Some of the playes speak fluent english whilst the others are impossible to understand.