WAT England A 2004 - Page 6 - World A-Team Cricket Forum

Glamorgan Wanderer · 04-10-2004, 03:44 PM in reply to Ernest's post "We Have To Try"

Ern

I would not say that Div 1 of the County Championship is a far higher standard than Div 2. It is a moot point whether in fact there is any great difference, but I have referred to it out of a desire to consider all of the possible factors in the performances of the players in question.

In any event, even if Mahmood has played at a higher level than Harrison he has not succeeded at that level and an unkind observer might question whether he has what it takes to do so (I wouldn't personally subscribe to that view and think he will come again but you never know). It is therefore slightly disingenuous to suggest that Mahmood has less of a step up to take.

Anderson moved from the academy into the first XI on the basis of a combination of his impressive performances for Lancs and being in the right place at the right time. We are selecting here on the basis of players' performances over last season and not in a hypothetical injury crisis and the bottom line is that Mahmood simply did not perform last season. He doesn't therefore deserve a place in the XI.

I also suspect that you are arguing from a partisan position (both of your automatic choices are Lancs players after all) and would like to stress that I am not. If the choice was between Lewis and Harrison then I would choose Lewis every time for instance.

Glamorgan Wanderer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

GW, what are your two automatic choices?

Mine would be Keedy and Bell.

Mike · 04-10-2004, 03:57 PM in reply to Ernest's post "We Have To Try"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernest

The point here is that Mahmood has been playing in a far higher grade than has Harrison.

Ern, the interesting thing about that argument is that the roles will be reversed next year. Harrison will be playing in Div 1 and Mahmood in Div 2. It seems to me that Mahmood shouldn't be considered for WAT selection next year unless his figures next year are better than Harrison produced in Div 2 this year.

Other interesting point is that Mahmood and Harrison are both in the Academy squad for the Winter tour. So we should be able to make some comparisons from that tour.

I've decided to go with Mahmood on the basis that Rachael also had him selected while nobody else had picked Harrison apart from GW. Big leap of faith though. Most controversial selection so far.

Mike · 04-10-2004, 04:00 PM in reply to Richard Jenkins's post "Can I play, or not?"

Richard, you can only be a selector for the WAT XI if you submit your XI from the players included in any of the 30-man provisional squads submitted earlier in this thread.

When Rachael submits her two automatic choices we can move on to the next stage.

Ernest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glamorgan Wandere

G W,
I also suspect that you are arguing from a partisan position (both of your automatic choices are Lancs players after all) and would like to stress that I am not. If the choice was between Lewis and Harrison then I would choose Lewis every time for instance.

One thing I don't do, is argue from a partisan point of view, that is a silly thing to do, it may well appear that I am doing so, but I assure you I am not, I am an England supporter first.
If truth be known, we are short of bowling talent in every aspect of English cricket.

If Harmison and Flintoff where to be injured, there is no obvious replacements for them, so it is with the players we have to work with here, we can't tell if a single one of them, will make the grade.

Not that long ago, this board, the BBC boards the press, where agog with the prospect of having Mahmood in the England side, not that long ago, no he has not had a good season, but that does not mean he is all at once a bad player, all it means is that he has had a bad run,he seems to have had a lot of fairweather supporters.

I have picked him because no other player stand up and shouts "pick me", because Harrison has had a better season playing in division two, than Mahmood,has for Lanc's does not prove he would be better in an England A-Team.

If Mahmood has the potential that people say he has, would this not be such a team for him to realise this potential?.

Mike

Mahmood had a good winter tour last year and has another chance this year to answer the critics. He'll also need to stand out in Div 2 next year to get any interest from me.

Ernest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Ern, the interesting thing about that argument is that the roles will be reversed next year. Harrison will be playing in Div 1 and Mahmood in Div 2.

Yes but then the same could happen in reverse, Mahmood could do well in Div 2, and then it could be argued, that he was only a Div 2 player.
Like I have just said in reply to GW, I picked him on potential, the same potential that others seemed to share, a very short time ago, nothing has changed, except peoples views.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

It seems to me that Mahmood shouldn't be considered for WAT selection next year unless his figures next year are better than Harrison produced in Div 2 this year.

Absolutely, if we are going on stats alone, and not taking into account any change in conditions, such as a long dry summer, producing dead pitches, but I agree on the whole.

Ernest · 04:43 PM

Fair comment, I see no reason why he should not do well again, I think his problem this year has been playing in a team with no moral, pre season favourites relegated, I bet he would have shone with Surrey.

ern

Mike · 04:33 PM

On the subject of whether Div 2 is as good as Div 1 the following tables suggest Div 2 is indeed weaker. You'll see that of the three Div 2 teams of 2003 who moved up to Div 1 in 2004 only one team - Gloucestershire - avoided relegation.

Code:

Frizzell County Championship Final Division Two Table, 2003

                           P  W  L  D Bat Bowl Deduct Points
Worcestershire            16 10  1  5  42  44   0.25  245.75
Northamptonshire          16 10  2  4  45  44   8.00  237.00*
Gloucestershire           16  5  2  9  38  46   0.00  190.00
------------------------------------------------------------
Yorkshire                 16  4  5  7  54  47   1.50  183.50
Glamorgan                 16  5  5  6  45  45   1.00  183.00
Durham                    16  5  7  4  31  43   0.75  159.25
Somerset                  16  4  8  4  41  44   0.00  157.00
Hampshire                 16  2  6  8  36  44   0.00  140.00
Derbyshire                16  2 11  3  30  44   0.00  114.00

Frizzell County Championship Final Division One Table 2004

Warwickshire              16  5  0  11 65  43   0.00  222.00
Kent                      16  7  3  6  43  41   0.00  206.00
Surrey                    16  5  5  6  60  42   0.50  195.50
Middlesex                 16  4  4  8  48  43   0.00  179.00
Sussex                    16  4  5  7  46  42   0.00  172.00
Gloucestershire           16  3  3  10 49  41   0.00  172.00
------------------------------------------------------------
Worcestershire            16  3  6  7  51  40   0.00  161.00
Lancashire                16  2  4  10 44  44   2.00  154.00
Northamptonshire          16  1  4  11 35  41   0.00  134.00

Seems it is hard to stay in Div 1 having got there.

Notts Exile

There needs to be at least a consolidation within the playing staff. Northants lost their only decent batsman (Mike Hussey) and gained one who was half decent (Usman Afzaal). Their spinners, Brown in particular, failed to perform.

Worcestershire suffered as neither Bichel nor Hall played anywhere near as well as expected.

Notts have signed two quality players to add to a decent team. We will buck the trend !!

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