Which players do you consider should or could play Test cricket for Pakistan now or in the future? The criteria: (1) Under 30 (2) Less than 6 Test matches played.

If a player has less than 6 Test matches and didn't play in the last Test match he is obviously not an established player. That is why Paul Collingwood qualifies for England A despite being in the touring party.

Players in last Test match for Pakistan:

Yasir Hameed, Imran Farhat, Younis Khan, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Riaz Afridi, Yousuf Youhana, Shoaib Malik, Abdul Razzaq, Kamran Akmal, Naved-ul-Hasan, Danish Kaneria.

Test Debuts: Naved-ul-Hasan, Riaz Afridi. Obviously these two players qualify for the A side since they have not yet proven themselves as regulars in the Test side.

Anybody not in that side, unless out through injury, is a fringe player and, provided they fit the WAT criteria, should be considered for the Pakistan A side.

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When selecting the England side we actually made an exception to the rule and included Collingwood.. who had too many caps.. on the grounds that he was still far from being a regular Test player. In the English case, of course, he was the only player with a significant number of caps who entered the equasion: I feel that in the case of the Pakistan side (where a number of under-25 players completely marginal to Test selection have > 5 caps) a case for a whole raft of exceptions could be made.

You guys know the players: work with the spirit of the thread.

Start off with everyone who IS eligible.. and that should include Umar Gul and Salman Butt: the English crew included Bell.. and he's hardly peripheral to the England setup. Then make a case for anyone who is in the same position as Collingwood: not a guy like Sami who is fully involved.. but anyone who is somewhat marginal right now.. and with a low Test profile... but even if they do have (say) 10-12 caps.

Start off with your strongest XI.. and we can then start disallowing people and forcing the hunt for replacements!

Collingwood only has two Test caps so is a qualifier. The only doubt we had with him was that he had not played enough county matches in the 2004 season, ie 50% or 8 matches. He was too busy playing for England in the one-day matches. One-day caps don't count in the WAT criteria.No - stick to the criteria, please. A player only qualifies if played less than 6 Test matches.

Michael Clarke of Australia is an interesting case. Only played 4 Test matches so qualifies for the A side. However, those 4 matches were played consecutively in India and he should be a starter against New Zealand in the upcoming series. If he were to play both those matches he would no longer qualify.

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Whilst I mull over my final few selections for the A team, its probably useful to lob across some thoughts in the meantime. PCB has announced a 25 member squad for the Australia tour - these guys will have a camp and then the 16 member touring squad would be selected from these. So in theory, most of those who do not make the final squad of 16 should be ideal candidates for WAT A team, since they are mostly young, and not that established in Test cricket.

The full 25 member squad is:

Salman Butt, Taufiq Umar, Imran Farhat, Shoaib Malik, Yousuf Youhana, Inzamam-ul-Haq (capt), Abdul Razzaq, Kamran Akmal (wk), Danish Kaneria, Shabbir Ahmed, Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami, Rana Naved, Shahid Afridi, Asim Kamal, Aamer Bashir, Riaz Afridi, Bazid Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq, Faisal Iqbal, Ashar Zaidi, Yasir Hameed, Younis Khan, Faisal Athar, Mohammad Khalil.

Of these, there are eight who meet the WAT A team criteria, and in fact should all be considered for the Pakistan A team.

These eight are:

1. Salman Butt
2. Rana Naved
3. Asim Kamal
4. Riaz Afridi
5. Bazid Khan
6. Ashar Zaidi
7. Faisal Athar
8. Mohammad Khalil

The four highlighted in bold are already in the team Zainub put forward. I would suggest that Salman Butt should be included there too - he may well be the rising star after his 108* v. India, but he is not a Test regular.

Butt did not play in our last Test, and I do not expect him to play in the first Test of the Aussie series. My hunch is that they will open with Farhat and Umar, but yes, there are a lot of variables involved and I don't think even Inzi or Woolmer know who the opening pair on the morning of 16 December will be! So its a safe assumption that Salman Butt may not be selected. If he becomes a Test regular, we will of course have to revise our team, once he gets more than 6 caps. But till then, one opening slot in the A team should be his by rights!

Of these eight above, Ashar Zaidi (23) a left handed opener, is the only one who seems to not have been considered at all by you Zainub - I would be interested in hearing your views on that, especially since he is a Karachite! :-) He is definitely in my provisional A team squad of 16, though hasn't cemented a place in the final 11 as yet. Has been doing well of late - against the visiting Zimbabwe team recently, he scored a fluent double ton in a two-day tour encounter.


In addition to the squad of 25 listed above, the Pakistani selectors have asked six promising and uncapped fast bowlers - Wasim Khan, Mohammad Irshad, Iftikhar Anjum, Mohammad Asif, Yasir Ali and Abdul Rauf - to join the squad in the camp to give them more experience of working with the national side. All six of these meet the A team criteria and are up and coming players.

Zainub, 4 of these six (the ones in bold) are part of your pool of probables, but you have not included Wasim Khan (26, no caps) or Mohammad Asif (22, no caps) - again, I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this.


I think we are moving forward, and should have the final Pakistan A soon!

I really appreciate the response. I was actually having a look at that probables list my self, and imediately knew that provisional A-team squad (and later the team as well) would need a modification.

I would also agree that despite my enthusiasm for Butt, it does appear that at this point in time he is the least likely to open the innings for us in the first test at Brisbane, and at best he would make it as 12th man(which in principal means he is fringe player and should be in the A team). I would think that it would be easier for us to bottle down to a Pakistan A team if we could settle what we want our first choice eleven to be like. I'll start a seperate thread for that very soon. For the mean while let's concentrate on this.

You are 100% right about Ashar Zaidi, I completely forget, and he at least should have made that provisional squad of mine. Zaidi has been around for a long time actually and he was actually in the under 19 team of 2000 which also included Sami. As far as Mohammad Asif is concerned, he also is a name that I have overlooked, as you have pointed out. Playing for Sialkot this season Asif has had a consistent season (and there can be only one reason why I didn't mention him initially that being I FORGOT). Wasim Khan also fell victim to my memory other wise there is no reason why he should not have been considered even, especially not after how successfully he's been bowling in tandem with Shahzad Butt for Lahore (Blues that is) with the new ball.

So now, the Pakistan A squad should look like this:

Mohammad Hafeez, Naved Latif, Sohail Ahmed, Ashar Zaidi, Bazid Khan, Faisal Athar, Salman Qadir, Asim Kamal, Farhan Adil, Saeed bin Nasir, Adnan Akmal, Khaqan Arsal, Hasan Raza, Junaid Zia, Bilal Asad, Yasir Arafat, Zulqarnain Haider, Attiquzaman, Adbur Rauf, Mohammad Arshad, Rana Naveed, Rao Iftikhar, Riaz Afridi, Mohammad Khalil, Yasir Ali, Mohammad Zahid, Fazle Akbar, Waqar Ahmed, Fahad Masood, Mohammad Asif, Wasim Khan, Hidayatullah Khan, Mansoor Amjad.

That's a big, big squad. I still think though that by and large I'll stick by my previous team. A couple of changes here and there would ne necessary though, some one must make way for Salman Butt and I'm afraid that must be Sohail Ahmed (who despite my thinking that he's promising is a good fielder has had an awful season so far). We can than debate on weather Hafeez is promising enough to give him another chance after 3 failures against Bangladesh or give the go ahead to Ashar Zaidi.

Bazid Khan, Hasan Raza and Asim Kamal should retain there places as far as my opinion is concerned and we can debate on weather we need a genuine batsmen at 6 (my choice would be Farhan Adil who averages 62 over 5 QT matches until now this season) or an allrounder. My sister here tells me that Mohammad Irshad (16 wickets in 5 matches at 30) though has a reputation of being capable of bowling fast has taken fewer wickets than Abdul Rauf (21 wickets in 5 matches at 20) this season, and recomends that I look at that again, so we can debate on that as well . Rana Naveed is most definately a fringe player now and there is no way I would leave him out of my A side, unless he's unfit, the only furtherdebateable spot here is that of Mohammad Khalil (11 wickets in 3 matches at 21)- Mohammad Asif would make a strong case for inclusion as he has been topping the wickets list with 25 wickets in 5 matches at an average of 24.84 and so would Waqar Ahmed who has taken 17 wickets at 20 in 4 QT matches. If anyone else has thoughts on the spinners and keepers spots then we can discuss that too.

What do you think of this:

1)Salman Butt
2)Mohammad Hafeez/Ashar Zaidi
3)Bazid Khan
4)Hasan Raza
5)Asim Kamal
6)Bilal Asad/Farhan Adil
7)Zulqarnain Haider
8)Rana Naved ul Hasan
9)Mansor Amjad
10)Mohammad Khalil/Mohammad Asif/Waqar Ahmed
11)Mohammad Irshad/Abdur Rauf

I have made an effort to put together a set of 11 players for Pakistan A side . Many of u may have objections on my selection but I think this is the best possible squad I could choose. In this squad I have given a blend of both youth and experience. I have also kept in mind the current form of the players in the domestic cricket. The composition of my team is such that it contain 5 batsmen , 2 all rounders , 1 wicket keeper , 1 spinner and 2 pace bowlers .
First i will give a long list of players eligible for selection in A side . Then i will shorten the list and select only 11 players from the list. So, here is the first list of players according to their position in the team.

Openers:-
1:- Faisal Naveed (age=24 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 56 first class matches and has scored 2954 runs at an average of 31.09 )

2:- Sufyan Munir (age=23 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 24 first class matches and has scored 1618 runs at an average of 44.94 )

3:- Khalid Latif (age=19 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 13 first class matches and has scored 344 runs at an average of 14.95 )

4:-Muhammad Hafeez (age=23 ,no of caps=3) (right handed batsman) (He has played 55 first class matches and has scored 2758 runs at an average of 30.64 )

5:- Sohail Ahmad (age=19 ,no of caps=0) (left handed batsman) (He has played 5 first class matches and has scored 104 runs at an average of 14.85 )

6:-Khurram Manzoor (age=18 ,no of caps=0)(right handed batsman) (He has played 8 first class matches and has scored 431 runs at an average of 30.78 )

Middle Order:-

1:-Faisal Khan (age=20 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 16 first class matches and has scored 859 runs at an average of 37.34 )

2:-Qaisar Abbas (age=22 ,no of caps=1) (left handed batsman) (He has played 61 first class matches and has scored 2861 runs at an average of 31.43 )

3:-Bazid Khan (age=23 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 61 first class matches and has scored 3404 runs at an average of 39.12 )

4:-Faisal Athar (age=29 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 37 first class matches and has scored 2647 runs at an average of 44.11 )

5:-Usman Arshad (age=21 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 8 first class matches and has scored 377 runs at an average of 53.85 )

6:-Hasan Raza (age=22 ,no of caps=5) (right handed batsman)(He has played 102 first class matches and has scored 6575 runs at an average of 47.99 )

7:-Khaqan Arsal (age=20 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 16 first class matches and has scored 697 runs at an average of 30.30 )

8:-Aamer Sajjad (age=23 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 10 first class matches and has scored 526 runs at an average of 40.46 )

9:-Farhan Adil (age=27 ,no of caps=1) (right handed batsman) (He has played 85 first class matches and has scored 4376 runs at an average of 36.46 )

10:-Kamran Sajid (age=21 ,no of caps=0) (left handed batsman) (He has played 30 first class matches and has scored 1148 runs at an average of 28.69 )

11:-Saeed Bin Nasir (age=25 ,no of caps=0)(right handed batsman)(He has played 48 first class matches and has scored 2928 runs at an average of 43.05 )

12:-Naveed Latif (age=28 ,no of caps=1) (right handed batsman) (He has played 89 first class matches and has scored 4518 runs at an average of 33.71 )

13:-Asim Kamal (age=28 ,no of caps=5) (left handed batsman) (He has played 55 first class matches and has scored 3146 runs at an average of 40.85 )

All Rounders:-

1:-Yasir Arafat (age=22 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 69 first class matches and has scored 2539 runs at an average of 27.01 )+(Right-arm medium pace)
(He has also taken 293 wickets at an average of 22.84)

2:-Bilal Asad (age=26 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 66 first class matches and has scored 4015 runs at an average of 37.87 )+(Right-arm medium pace)
(He has also taken 59 wickets at an average of 29.76)

3:-Salman Qadir (age=20 ,no of caps=0) (right handed batsman) (He has played 5 first class matches and has scored 202 runs at an average of 22.44 )+(Right-arm off-break)
(He has also taken 3 wickets at an average of 49.00)

4:-Naveed ul Hasan (age=26 ,no of caps=1)(right handed batsman) (He has played 57 first class matches and has scored 1739 runs at an average of 24.84 )+(Right-arm medium pace)
(He has also taken 268 wickets at an average of 23.12)

Wicket Keepers:-

1:-Zulqarnain Haider(age=18 ,no of caps=0)(right handed batsman)(He has played 11 first class matches and has scored 559 runs at an average of 43.01 )+(He also has 41 dismissals at an average of 3.73 dismissals/match)

2:-Atiq uz Zaman (age=28 ,no of caps=1)(right handed batsman)(He has played 66 first class matches and has scored 2299 runs at an average of 27.36 )+(He also has 227 dismissals at an average of 3.45 dismissals/match)

Spinners:-

1:-Mansoor Amjad (age=18 , no of caps=0)(Leg-break bowler)

2:-Tariq Mahmood (age=19 , no of caps=0)(Right-arm off-break)

Right arm pace bowlers:-

1:-Yasir Ali (age=18 ,no of caps=1) (Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 3 first class matches and has taken 5 wickets at an average of 37.00 )

2:-Abdul Rauf (age=26 ,no of caps=0) (Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 38 first class matches and has taken 184 wickets at an average of 24.86 )

3:-Ahmed Hayat (age=27 ,no of caps=0) (Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 54 first class matches and has taken 162 wickets at an average of 28.90 )

4:-Iftikhar Anjum (age=24 ,no of caps=0)(Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 55 first class matches and has taken 247 wickets at an average of 23.17 )

5:-Muhammad Asif (age=22 ,no of caps=0)(Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 33 first class matches and has taken 117 wickets at an average of 27.14 )

6:-Muhammad Irshad(age=22 ,no of caps=0)(Right-arm fast) (He has played 14 first class matches and has taken 51 wickets at an average of 29.96 )

7:-Riaz Afridi (age=19 ,no of caps=1) (Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 17 first class matches and has taken 63 wickets at an average of 25.69 )

8:-Junaid Zia (age=21 ,no of caps=0)(Right-arm fast-medium) (He has played 18 first class matches and has taken 48 wickets at an average of 27.45 )

Left Arm pace bowlers:-

1:-Muhammad Khalil (age=22 ,no of caps=0)(left-arm fast-medium) (He has played 19 first class matches and has taken 54 wickets at an average of 34.70 )

2:-Najaf Shah (age=20 ,no of caps=0) (left-arm fast-medium) (He has played 27 first class matches and has taken 84 wickets at an average of 28.36 )

3:-Waqar Ahmed (age=24 ,no of caps=0) (left-arm fast-medium) (He has played 31 first class matches and has taken 152 wickets at an average of 19.27 )

4:-Zahid Saeed (age=23 ,no of caps=0)(left-arm fast-medium) (He has played 58 first class matches and has taken 241 wickets at an average of 24.22 )
This is a list of the players who r knocking at the door of Pakistani A team for selection.Now , i will provide u with a list of 11 players . Believe me , it was a very difficult task to choose 11 players from a long list of talented players.

Final Pakistan A XI :-
1 :-Muhammad Hafeez
2 :-Sufyan Munir
3 :-Bazid Khan
4 :-Hasan Raza (c)
5 :-Saeed bin Nasir
6 :-Yasir arafat
7 :-Rana Naveed ul Hasam
8 :-Zulqarnain Haider (wk)
9 :-Mansoor Amjad
10:-Rao IftiKhar Anjum
11:-Waqar Ahmad

Reasons for my selection:-

For the opening slot I had a lot of options but I have opted for Muhammad Hafeez and Sufyan Munir. I have selected Muhammad Hafeez because he is not only a good batsman but also a good fielder and a wicket taking bowler.Along with him I have gone for Sufyan Munir who is a rising star of our first class cricket . Sufyan Munir is an agressive and dynamic batsman and a very safe fielder too. He is also in a very good form in recent Quaid-e-azam trophy matches. For the middle order positions the competion was very tough but I have kept faith on Bazid Khan , Hasan Raza and Saeed bin Nasir. Hasan Raza and Bazid Khan were the obvious coice for Pakistan A due to their recent form and past record . But the compitition was with Saeed bin Nasir , Asim Kamal , Usman Arshad ,Faisal Khan and Naveed Latif . I have not selected Asim Kamal in my squad because he already has 5 test caps and now he is now a regular member of test side. If he will get one more test cap , which he surely will get , then he could not be selected for A side.On the other hand Saeed bin nasir has been performing consistently well for the last 2 years and he is not fortunate to be picked for pakistani side. Saeed bin Nasir is a very solid batsman of very high class.So , he is my first choice.
I have selected Yasir Araft and Naveed ul Hasan as two all rounders . I have not selected Asad Rauf because he is a good batsman but he is not a good bowler . He lacks the quality to pick up wickets.
For wicket keeping spot I have given the gloves to young emerging wicket keeper Zulqarnain Haider . Zulqarnain Haider not only bats better than atiq but also keeps wicket better than atiq.For the spinning option the obvious choice was young Mansoor Amjad . For the fast bowling I have selected one right arm and a left arm fast bowler. I have selected Iftikhar Anjum because he is in a very good form and he has proved his abilities in domestic circuit but other bowlers like Mohammad Irshad and Riaz Afridi have yet to prove in the domestic circuit.For choosing a left arm fast medium bowler I have gone for Waqar Ahmed . He is a very impressive bowler. He has an amazing ability to take wickets . He also enjoys the best average as a fast bowler in first class matches .

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h@butt

Point 1) why have you over looked Salman Butt for the opening slot? Personally I think I'd settle for Hafeez-Butt , although I appreciate you putting forward Sayman Munnir's name. I'd prefer Butt over Munnir because Butt has had international exposure for Pakistan at the one-day level, and has also proved that he can score runs away from home in different conditions with a double century in SA (in a Pakistan Acedemy tour) and a one-day hundred against India very recently. He is right now a fringe player as far as the test side is concerned, and will not in my opinion get a test place in the Australian tour unless both Umar, Farhat and Hameed have been tried and failed, which I would think will not happen just over the coarse of a 3 test matche series, perhaps if we were playing 5 there would have been a chance, but at this stage he is a fringe player therefore qualifies for the A side. To me Hafeez (would get the nod ahead of Ashar Ziadi and/or anyone else becuase a)he too has some experience of the international stage, b) he is one of the best fielders in Pakistan right now and finally c)he is a very useful occasional bowler as well).

Point 2) What makes you think Asim Kamal is an established player in the side? Since making his debut in the SA series Pakistan have played 8/9 (not sure) test matches Asim Kamal has played in 5 of those (having been dropped for the last test against Sri Lanka and both the tests against NZ in NZ). Now that Younus Khan is back in preference again he would struggle to get a place in the final eleven, and therefore also qualifies as a fringe player.

Point 3) Salman Qadir is not all rounder (his bowling is at best part time) and neither is Rana Naved an allrounder, he is primaraly a bowler, who can hold a bat, and stick around, but I don't think he has got quite the technique or repotoire of shots to be considered anything but an able tailender, who could be used as a night watchman. Neither of them are in my dictinoary all rounders, which is a term I strictly reserve for those who are good enough with the bat or ball alone to get in the side. Although Naved-ul-Hasan would still be in my side for his bowling alone is good enough.

I'd personally think playing Bilal Asad would be a better option because I think Asad is much more reliable batsmen than Arfat (and would hence give the side a better balance). Secondly, Arfat is younger and hence more likely to get more chances, Asad at this stage is already 26 and if we don't give him exposure with the A side now, he might never get any opportunity again.

Point 4) I completely respect your selection of Rao Iftikhar ahead of Irshad and Rauf, no bowler has been quite so consistent in knocking the door of the selectors with wickets at the domestic level, but think agains Haseeb Butt 007, there is no substitue for raw pace, it is an asset most teams would not deny having in their team, Pakistan has always been lucky that we have had bowlers who can bowl fast, and I think we should use that to our advantage rather than sit back and do the opposite. Perhaps you could select one of either Waqar of Rao Itikhar or Mohammad Asif who you have not considered at all and ask him to share the new ball with either Irshad or Rauf, who ever we eventually decide will be more effective.

Please send your feedback on this team:

Salman Butt
Mohammd Hafeez
Bazid Khan
Hasan Raza
Asim Kamal
Zulqarnain Haider
Bilal Asad
Rana Naved-ul-Hasan
Mansor Amjad
Rao Itikhar Rana/Waqar Ahmed/Mohammad Asif
Mohammad Irshad/Abdur Rauf

I have to say that I'm impressed with the cricket knowledge displayed in this thread so far by the three selectors. However, as I will show you, the final XI is a long way from being decided as only two players appear in all three lists.
In a situation like this I think a useful device to break the deadlock and move forward is to nominate 2 players who you think MUST be in the final XI. This will lock in at least 4 or 5 players and the side will start taking shape. The rest of the side can be built around these core players keeping in mind the balance of the side. Do you want two specialist spinners in the side or just one? In reality, this would be decided by the expected pitch conditions, however, for the purposes of this exercise, I suggest you include only one spinner and a batsman who can be used as a second spinner. The asterisks in the table below represent the number of times the player appears on the various lists of the three selectors.

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Hi Mike, thanks for the advice.

Firstly, Rao Iktikhar & Iftikhar Anjum are the same people - his full name is Rao Iftikhar Anjum.

Secondly, Rana Naved & Naved-ul-Hassan are also the same people - his full name is Rana Naved-ul-Hasan.

Thirdly, what Maranello suggested were just names of players, not a team, he actually pointed out a few names I had not mentioned and were part of the list of probables annouced for the Australian tour. So principally we have had just 2 selectors, that being my self, and Hafeez Butt 007, Maranello, up till now has not come up with his select XI, atlhough he has come up with some very useful input.

In which case the players that were common to both 'selectors' as if were, are:

Mohammad Hafeez, Bazid Khan, Hasan Raza, Rana Naveed-ul-Hasan, Zulqarnain Haider, Mansor Amjad and Waqar Ahmed

I do think we our making progress, as a matter of fact we have only some positions to decide:

A) who should opening the innings with Hafeez, should that be Salman Butt (my preference) or Sufyan Munir (HB007's preference) or Ahsar Zaidi (presumably Maranello's preference)

B) who should play as the all-rouder, are should there be no all rounder at all

C) which fast bowlers do we need, apart from Waqar Ahmed and Naved-ul-Hasan, which of coarse are only two ones we've agreed on

That is no that bad for a start, is it?

Zainub, I think Maranello wants to be included in the discussions to select the team. Let's wait and see what team he comes up with. I suggest all three selectors decide on their final XI and choose two players who they think MUST be in the final XI. I suggest that those two names be forwarded to me privately in a PM so that other selectors are not influenced by seeing these names before they have chosen their own two names. When I receive the six names I'll post them to this thread and the negotiations can proceed to select the rest of the team.

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