Is Salman Butt the person who scored about 320* in a domestic one day game and caused the match to be abandoned as his 6 hitting onto a road was deemed a health and safety risk. I know it was a Pakistani and his name rings a bell. I will try to find the article later tonight.

If it was last weekend you were thinking of, Statto, it was Hussain Butt, playing for Hong Kong University. Briefly covered in the thread linked here.

That will be the one, I hadnt seen that thread. Thanks OF, and sorry for the interruption.

I don't believe this - I spent the past 45 minutes on preparing my analysis of the probables and the possibles for the A team and have lost the post!

Anyway, I will be brief this time around, and go straight to my selection.

My WAT Pakistan A XI is as follows:

1. Muhammad Hafeez
2. Salman Butt
3. Bazid Khan
4. Asim Kamal
5. Hasan Raza
6. Saeed bin Nasir
7. Rana Naveed ul Hasan
8. Zulqarnain Haider (wk)
9. Mansoor Amjad
10. Umar Gul
11. Waqar Ahmad

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
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Ok, very briefly, reasons for my selection:

Salman Butt is an obvious choice - he is by no means a Test regular, in fact he is fourth in line I would say, after Farhat, Umar and Hameed, based on who Pakistan have selected. He made his Test debut in Aug 2003 against B/Desh and has not been selected since. All this indicates he is not a Test regular, but a fringe player. However, he showed against India in the ODI that he has the class, the temperament, the guts and the cricketing nous to develop into an excellent opener at Test level. One for the future and a must! Can bat for long periods, as a recent double-ton proves. Also a brilliant fielder.

Hafeez - I was unsure about him and Ashar Zaidi to start off with. Hafeez is not a natural opener technique wise, and so is not going to be a long-term Test opener. He may yet develop into a capable Test no.3 or middle order bat though, and could play for Pak as an opener in ODIs. He is selected for his gritty performances with the bat, but also for other factors. He can bowl pretty decent off spin, is a great competitor - the captain for Sargodha for a couple of years now, so a leader from a very young age. Is also an excellent fielder, as good as Collingwood or Kaif etc.

Hafeez had a decent Test debut - a 50 in his first Test, and a 100 in his second Test both against B/Desh. Ok the opposition was weak but runs are runs, and not everyone got them! In fact most others did not with the exception of Yasir Hameed! So I do not agree with Zainub's comment that Hafeez failed against BD. He did have a few mediocre one-dayers against SA, and was never selected again. Malik's good form means Hafeez will have a hard time making a return.

Zaidi is more of a nautral opener at least at Test level, but I do not see him making a burst into the team, he is a lot more outer fringe than Hafeez. Also, his batting average is not that great compared to Hafeez.

Bazid Khan - not a natural no. 3, and maybe more suited to the middle order. So not like his father, who was undoubtedly one of the greatest post-War Test openers from any country, and a truly spectacular batsman. Bazid is not as talented, but has good technique, and the recent triple ton (300 not out v. Hyderabad) suggests he can stay for v. long periods. A must selection really and hence all three of us have selected him.

I would put Asim Kamal at 4 - make him the lynch-pin around whom the batting revolves. He is by no means a Test regular, in fact would probably have to wait a good few months for his sixth cap I guess, unless since Younis and Yasir Hameed are ahead of him to fill the only available vacant middle-order batting slot! But I agree Haseeb Butt, once Asim Kamal gets six caps or over, we will have to consider someone else - but not till then!

Hasan Raza is an obvious selection, and we all have put him in there. A child prodigy, holds the world record for the youngest Test cap of all time, and still only 22. He deserves to be in the Test squad soon...

The next question is about a specialist batsman at no.6 vs an all rounder...remember guys, this is not a 5 day Test, and we do not have to take 20 wickets, only take 10 wickets, or bowl effectively for 90 overs. It is a day 2-day contest, not 4 or 5! Hence, I do not see the point of having an all-rounder at no.6. Going in with 5 batsmen is always a dangerous move, especially given Pakistani batting history. Hence I would go in for a batsman at no.6

The team is still balanced since we will have 4 specialist bowlers (3 seamers and a spinner) as well as Hafeez, who is a more than handy fifth bowler. In addition, Bazid can turn his arm over in dire situations, as can the no. 6 batsman I select, Saeed Bin Nasir. Hence, let's go for six batsmen.

Why Saeed Bin Nasir? Well, who else! He is 24, has an average of 43, with 7 100s and 17 odd 50s already. He has a staggeringly high 50+ avg in List-A limited overs, and can be a match-winner with the bat. I think he is the ideal no.6 and in fact, should be considered for the Test team in the next year or two on that basis. So an obvious choice for the A team - more "up and coming" and more assured than Farhan, the closest competitor. I did not go for Farhan Adil, as he is older, has a much poorer average and probably will have a harder time making it back to the Test team!

Zulqarnain as the wicketkeeper we all agre with.

The bowling attack needs three seam bowlers and a spinner. Rana Naved-ul-Hasan is the first choice seamer, a wicket taker and a big-hearted performer. I still do not see him picking a lot of Test wickets without the aid of a new ball - Shaka and I discussed this endlessly on some other threads. So even if does become a Test regular, it will be as a support bowler, not as the main striker bowler. But he deserves his spot in the A team.

His new ball partner should be...wait for it...Umar Gul! I daresay this is my most controversial selection. However, lets think about this logically.

Gul played all three Tests against B'Desh in Aug 2003 as the big guns were injured/not playing. He was then not selected for the home series against SA. And only played one of the two Tests in NZL, when one of the three main bowlers was injured. Similarly, he was not selected for the first Test v. India. Only made it to the second Test as Shabbir was injured. Shabbir is more experienced, gets more bounce and has more variety - he will always be the first choice for the next few series, even if Gul was injured. In the longer term, who knows, Gul may end up spearheading the Test attack. But he is only 19, and I think Inzi and Woolmer will stick with Shabbir.

Hence, Gul is not a Test regular, even if he was fully fit now. I am not saying he will never be a Test regular - only that he will not walk straight into the Test side, esp. not after coming back from a long lay-off. A-team cricket would be ideal for him. He meets the A team criteria, and should be selected, easily the most promising young bowler in the whole country!!

Mansoor Amjad as the spinner we all agree with, good reasons given by both Haseeb and Zainub to include him.

The third seamer...well Zainub you give good reasons for including Irshad, but his record even in the environs of Pakistani domestic cricket is pretty ordinary, and batsmen in our domestic game are not renowned for batting technique! In fact Irshad has a worse record than most of the others you guys list.

He models himself on Shoaib Akhtar, but does not have the pace, let alone the ability. His balls generally languish in 80-88 mph...so not world-beating pace, and he lacks the control to be dangerous. I would much rather go for someone with control and ability. Do you see Irshad as spearheading the Test team attack in 3 years? I don't...whereas I could see Gul or Shabbir do it quite easily!

I also feel we should go for a left armer. Three similar-ish seam bowlers make the attach predictable, why not add some variety. The best left-armer in the land appears to be Waqar Ahmed so I will go with Haseeb's selection of him ahead of the others.

I think this completes my XI. I had included some comments on the selections by Zainub and Haseeb but will leave it here for the time being, and we can explore those comments in our discussions!


So Zainub, Haseeb, what do you think? If you are convinced about some of the above, please feel free to revise your teams, as I have over the past couple of days. I would much rather we end up at a consensus team that we are all happy with, as opposed to voting on names etc.

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain

[/quote]This is a poster's worst nightmare! Before accepting that the post is truly lost clicking the backspace key sometimes takes you back to the editor with the post intact. My computer does regularly crash so I always create long posts in Notepad and save the post a few times as I'm adding to it. Also I like to copy the post with Ctrl-C just before I post it in case the post doesn't get submitted properly for any reason, then Ctrl-V should paste a new copy. If you accidently delete a long post Ctrl-Z should recover it.

Just a point on all-rounders - only pick them if they merit inclusion based on either their batting or bowling. Try and select either a bowling all-rounder or a batting all-rounder. A batting-allrounder should bat in the top 6 and bowl 3rd or 4th. A bowling all-rounder should bowl 1st or 2nd and bat after the keeper. England A has AD Mascarenhas who is a bowling all-rounder.

Even though the tournament is only 90 overs each try to pick players who you think have a Test future. Try not to be influenced by the length of the 90 over format. A player with Test potential should be picked regardless. Try to differentiate bits-and-pieces players from genuine all-rounders. Bits-and-pieces players can hit a brisk 30 or 40 runs and take 2 or 3 wickets but genuine all-rounders will hit Test centuries and take 5-fors.

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Administrator

First of all , I would like to congratulate Zainub for having consensus with me on most of the players . Now , I am separating the players who r the obvious choice of both of us from those who r still the cause of some controversy . This is the list of players who r selected by both of us.
1:-Muhammad Hafeez
2:-Bazid Khan
3:-Hasan Raza
4:-Zulqarnain Haider
5:-Rana Naveed ul hasan
6:-Mansoor Amjad
Now I am giving the list of those who's destiny have not yet been decided.They r:-
1:-Salman Butt/Sufyan Munir
2:-Asim Kamal/Saeed bin Nasir
3:-Bilal Asad/Yasir Arafat
4:-Rao Iftikhar Anjum/Waqar Ahmad/Muhammad Asif
5:-Muhammad Irshad/Abdul Rauf
(1)In the case of Salman Butt , I think he will be playing 1st test in Australia . I have some reasons for that . In the present circumstances, selectors have four choices for openning positions against Australia in test matches.Theses choices r;Taufeeq umar,
Imran Farhat , Salman Butt and Yasir Hameed . We should not take Yasir Hameed into consideration because if he will be selected in pakistan-XI then he will be send on one down position because he could not perform well against Srilanka as opener . from the remaining choices I think the place of Salman Butt in first test as opener is sure . In our part of world , anyone who plays well against India is considered to be a hero . fortunately , salman butt struck a century against India , therefore , he will surely play against Australia. One other reason for his selection is that he is also in a good form in first class matches and he recently struck a double century in a first class game against Karachi . On the other hand , one player from Taufeeq and Farhat will open along with Salman Butt . Taufeeq and Farhat r not in best of form in domestic competitions as well .All these point goes in the favour of Salman Butt for playing against Australia.On the other hand ,Sufyan Munir is an emerging Youngster who is performing brilliantly in first class cricket and he is the only in form opener after Salman Butt.So he should be in the A side if Salman Butt plays for Pakistan-XI .
(2)The other point of clash is Asim Kamal and Saeed bin nasir .Asim kamal has 5 caps already and he needs only one match to be ineligible for our list of A side . As Zainub was saying that he has played in 5 matches out of last 8/9 matches of Pakistan . Therefore , there is possipility that he might get another game in australian tour due to the failure of Younis Khan . As Younis Khan does not play well on fast bouncy tracks. Asim Kamal is averaging only 22 in this first class season . But on the other hand Saeed bin nasir has been performing consistently well from the last two seasons and he deserves a place in A side . He is also in better form than than asim kamal in first class cricket . The first class career average of Asim kamal is 40.85 runs and saeed bin nasir has average of 43.05. Therefore , keeping in view his past record and recent form saeed bin nasir deserve a place in A side.
(3)BIlal Asad is not a pure All rounder , rather he is a batsman who could bowl . He only takes the wickets on granted . He has taken only 59 wickets from 66 first class matches . Therefore he should not be considered an all rounder and hence should not be played in the side . In the recent Quaid-e-azam trophy he has played 5 games and has not yet taken a wicket .If u resist to play him in A side than I would suggest u to play a pure batsman in the side!!!!
(4)we should play a left arm pace bowler in the side in order to have some variety in the attack . So , the best option available is Waqar Ahmad.Here is his first class record for the sake of ur interest

First-Class Career Bowling (1997/98-2004/05)
Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM SRate Econ
5202 165 2930 152 7-67 19.27 12 3 34.22 3.37

(5)Instead of playing Muhammad Irshad and Abdul Rauf we must give a chance to Yasir Arafat . Zainub was saying that we should give a chance to Muhammad Irshad because of his extra ordinary pace . I am sorry to say that I don't agree with u on this point . It is a reality that pace is not the every thing . the real thing is the ability of a bowler to take wickets . Pace can be a plus point of any bowler at small levels . But not at the International level . U cannot make a batsman struggle only with ur pace . The main thing which a bowler needs is consistant line and length . Unfortunately , Muhammad Irshad lacks this quality . he is a type of bowler who will bowl all 6 deliveries of the over on different line and length , making the batsman easy to dominate the bowler .But , I believe Muhammad Irshad is a talented bowler but has not yet showed his best performance in the domestic competitions . He is still a young lad he could be selected later when he start showing some performance . In his place he should play Yasir Arafat who has also very good pace , better than abdul rauf , M.asif and Rao Iftikhar . He also knows the art of bowling reverse swing . In addition to his bowling abbilities his batting will be an extra trade for the team . He is no doubt the best allrounder Pakistan has produced for the last couple of years . He is also showing extra ordinary performance in the domestic circuit so it is right time to pick him in the side ahead of M Irshad .

Bowling average of Yasir Arafat in First class =22.84
Bowling average of Muhammad Irshad in First class =29.96
Strike Rate of Yasir Arafat in First class =39.78
Strike Rate of Muhammad Irshad in First class =47.84

Bowling average of Yasir Arafat in current First class season =21.93
Bowling average of Muhammad Irshad in current First class season =30.90


Finally , keeping some of ur suggestions in mind . I am giving a well balanced Squad of 11 players . Please , consider it with open mind and heart!!!!!

1 :- Muhammad Hafeez
2 :- Salman Butt / Sufyan Munir
3 :- Bazid Khan
4 :- Hasan Raza
5 :- Saeed bin Nasir
6 :- Bilal Asad / (any other batsman who can also bowl)
7 :- Yasir Arafat (in place of M Irshad)
8 :- Zulqarnain Haider
9 :- Rana Naveed ul Hasan
10:- Mansoor Amjad
11:- Waqar Ahmad

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h@butt

I already said before Gul would be an automatic selection for the A side if 1)he's fit 2)he's not in the Pakistan side
Maranello, you think with Shabbir Ahmed fit and available for selection Woolmer and Inzi will prefer Ahmed over Gul, so I beleive you, in which case Mohammad Irshad will not make my team, and Umar Gul will share the new ball with Waqar Ahmed, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan will bowl first change, and Bilal Asad will fill up the rest of the overs

My final team should hence forth be Hafeez Butt Khan Raza Kamal Asad Haider Naved-ul-Hasan Amjad Ahmed Gul*

*subject to fitness, standby by replacement Abdur Rauf (ok, ok I conceed. May be (just may be) Mohammad Irshad is not really that capable of bowling as fast as I thought initally, but I still feel sorry I can't have a chance to see him get some international exposure. You two can be proud though, you've just convinced a compulsive selector into changing her opinion, you two should be proud, this doesn't happen that very often !!!))

Now, 99% of our selections our identical!

But between all that, who do you think we should make the captain, I'm thinking Mohammad Hafeez, simply because he's imagintive, and enjoys him self, savor's playing his cricket, and I hence feel will lead the side with a great measure of passion and enthusiam. I also think it should have a good and positive influence on his batting, and it will encourage him to try and bat more responsibly. Another factor that goes in his favor is that he's a good fielder, and will hence lead the team by example on the field. He's the sort of guy I think usually will raise up his hand and say "Let me try something" when ever there is a long passage of passive cricket being played. He should be a good influence on the rest of the guys, I really think so. I just really have a good impression of him in my mind for some reason, I thought it was a shame he didn't score more runs for his one he was first tried, I was really impressed with him other wise. What do you guys think?

Yep Maranello,

I have lost quite a few long posts, and you get that sinking feeling, I agree with Mike, use your back button, and a lot of times Hey Presto, your post is back.

If you write your post in notepad, you can save it as----as many times as you want, while you collect data and stats ect, and if you write your post in notepad, dont forget to use "word wrap".
Then just paste your post in the editer.

Ern

ZR, Thank you for your comments on Gul.

Agree wholeheartedly about Hafeez being the skipper - in fact he was an automatic selection simply because he brings so much to the team, not just his batting. Otherwise, there are better natural openers..but Hafeez brings a very exciting package!

The only point of difference now is the no.6 slot. I strongly feel we should have a specialist batsman, not a batting all-rounder. What do you think?

__________________
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain