Steyn now has now played 6 Test matches but can be considered for this year's WAT team since he was still qualified when the thread started.

Botha is currently suspended by the ICC for a suspect action but he is still in the reckoning for future Test selection provided he remodels his action. He was named in the recent High Performance Programme:

HPP squad: Hashim Amla, Paul Adams, Loots Bosman, Johan Botha, Cliffie Deacon, JP Duminy, Paul Harris, Davy Jacobs, Garnett Kruger, Neil McKenzie, Albie Morkel, Mfuneko Ngam, Justin Ontong, Robin Peterson, Andrew Puttick, Dale Steyn, Roger Telemachus, Alfonoso Thomas, Thandi Tshabalala, Thami Tsolekile, Johan van der Wath, Monde Zondeki

Key players:

Maty: Duminy, davey Jacobs
Paoli: Duminy and van der Wath
Rachael: Mbhalati and Tshabalala
Vrock: Dale Steyn, Hashim Amla
Karthik: Hashim Amla and Justin Kemp
Wanderer: JP Duminy and Mondi Zondeki
Mike: JA Morkel, DW Steyn

Provisional Team:
Key:
* - number of key votes
(x) - number of votes (chosen in the selectors teams)
20.00 8(1) - Batting avg is 20.00, bats at 8, bowls 1st

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Administrator

This provisional side has some serious flaws which need to be addressed.

No specialist openers.
A 2nd-rate keeper
Kemp and Morkel can't both play together.
Too many seamers.

Please submit your choice of XI based on these key players. Drop key players, if you have to, to balance the side.

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Administrator

HG Kuhn (4) 45.14 1
HM Amla (6)** 62.35 3
JL Ontong (4) 47.07 3
JP Duminy (5)*** 43.66 4
MN Van Wyk (4) 56.14 5
JA Morkel (4)* 100.66 7(3)
MJ Harris WKT 40.93 6
JJ van der Wath (3)* 20.00 8(1)
DW Steyn (4)** 12.87 11(1)
Thandi Tsabalala (4)* 12.00 10(4)
Mondi Zondeki (4)* 5.81 10(2)

Ontong is the back-up spinner. Morkel is the 4th seamer. Harris is an excellent keeper and handy bat. I think that is a balanced side. If you want more runs from your spinner, replace Tsabalala with Botha (RA-OB) or RJ Peterson (SLA).

Well, there's a surprise: three speedsters and a wicket keeper with a batting average of 40. Even if I knew absolutely nothing about the SA candidates I would, if presiding over this discussion, throw that lot back at you in disgust: fast bowlers who are any good are rare, so the chances of three genuinely fast bowlers being the three best seamers in SA cricket are somewhere between slim and nonexistent - and genuine glovemen who can bat are even rarer... so I'm deeply suspicious of your 'keeper.

Let's please just have a vote one which one of the three speedsters we take and make him the token speedster.

My revised team then, (using the selection basis) if it's okay, I'd like to give my reasons for selection? Thanks.

Davey Jacobs
Vaughan van Jaarsveld
Hashim Amla (although I think he's gonna be a regular in the national side)
JP Duminy
Zander de Bruyn
Tyron Henderson (batting all-rounder. Big hitter, gets nice swing with the older ball)
Thami Tsolekile
Johan van der Wath (bowling all-rounder. His strength is the new ball, and he CAN bowl fast)
Dale Steyn (same as Amla)
Mondi Zondeki
Thandi Tshabalala

* From the list, these 2 will be the best bet as openers. I still prefer Stephen Cook though.
* Tsolekile - Not the best glovesman, but a more than reliable bat at 7. ONLY behind Boucher and de Villiers, but they're in the national squad. H Kuhn has only had 1 season and 4 games of first class cricket. I'd like to see a bit more of him before I'd have him in my squad as a keeper contender)
* Tshabalala. Probably the most attacking spinner in SA cricket at the moment. Okay, he bats at 11. But if I have to rely on someone to get me runs at no 11, I think my goose is already cooked...

Wanderer,

At this stage of the selection process we can only consider players who are well supported by the selectors. Zander de Bruyn was only selected in your original team whereas Kuhn was chosen by four selectors. Khun has played 14 first-class matches this season for an average of 41. He has played 16 FC matches in all for an average of 40. Given the support he has and the need for an opener, I can't accept Zander de Bruyn as an alternative.

Thami Tsolekile has a case for selection given that he was chosen by two selectors but he wasn't chosen as a key player and, given that two selections is not a strong enough vote of support for automatic inclusion I'd prefer to have Harris as the wicketkeeper.

Tsolekile is talented, but has had a poor year. Last season he averaged 36 with the bat compared to 22 this season. We try and reward in-form players with selection in the WAT team whenever possible. Harris averaged 50 with the bat last year and 40 this year plus 42 catches compared to 37 by Tsolekile. His consistency with the bat in the past two years coupled with his improved keeping puts him ahead of Tsolekile now, in my opinion, who had a poor year with the bat. Our selection policy is to reward consistent, in-form players because the team is chosen at the end of each domestic season. Tsolekile has to stake a claim for inclusion next year by showing some decent form with the bat. He has ability but lacks consistency at this stage. We also have the same scenario with Bazid Khan in the WAT Pakistan A team. Great form last year but poor form this year means he has to give way to an in-form player who deserves an opportunity. That's what selection is all about. Rewarding a fine season and giving players an opportunity to showcase themselves. Bazid Khan and Tsolekile had fine seasons last year but our selection policy is not to reward players who have had poor years. Those two players have an opportunity next year to get re-selected provided they play well.

I'm not sure why you are suggesting Tyron Henderson at this stage when he wasn't in your original side and no other selector chose him. Basically, he has no support from the selectors. The choice of all rounder is between Morkel and Kemp. Kemp is not a genuine all rounder, he's a part-time bowler. Hardly gets a bowl for his club side. Morkel is a genuine all rounder who has averaged 66 and 75 with the bat in the last two seasons and taken 20 and 17 wickets. Once again, if we are rewarding consistency and form players then Morkel is the best candidate.

I think you should - unless you want to see all your choices steamrolled by the "majority" :-)

I do think though that selection by majority or a crude voting mechanism, which Mike seems to imply in his last post, is just not appropriate in this case. Sure, 5 or 10 or 20 WAT selectors may have selected player X, but based on what? Some random statistics alone? Surely a better approach would be for those without any specific insight into South African domestic and A-team cricket to listen to those who have this insight? If someone has actually seen some SA domestic cricket, and read about it in the local press, he should enlighten the rest of the selectors (in a non-partisan way, if at all possible) - otherwise, you selectors run the risk of selecting from a very narrow basis indeed and perhaps making some ill-informed decisions.

Once the selectors have this insight on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the key probables, all can debate the appropriate composition of the team and the right balance of strengths that would be needed by SA.

In my view, its not all about a player's stats in the last domestic season; its about what he brings to the side, what role he is meant to fulfil and what stage of development he is at, in his career.


PS: Apologies for the late intervention in this thread - I am not a "selector" as have not contributed to this thread to date; however wanted to clarify a few procedural points which I would have thought are relevant to all WAT A teams.

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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes
Mark Twain

I'd like to clarify this point: the qualifiers are not just players who played at least 50% of the domestic season. When I post the qualifiers I always take into account whether their domestic season was reduced due to national team duties. For example:

Despite these players having little domestic form this season they are in the national team setup and have to be seriously considered for any A team selection despite their domestic form. Consequently, all players were considered for selection by our group of selectors. That list contains two all rounders, a frontline bowler and a spinner. All of those players credentials have to be weighed up against rising, in-form domestic players. As it happens, Peterson has been surpassed by Thandi Tshabalala as the preferred spinner. However, the other three have been chosen by the selectors despite competition from the domestic ranks. So, we don't just pick players on domestic stats alone but those domestic players form the competition for the national fringe players and, if a domestic star comes along, they deserve to have their case for selection seriously considered.

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Administrator

Sorry guys...I want to apologise. I think I jumped headlong into the selection thing, and I reckon I did not know the "rules", being new to this and all. I chose a team based on what I've seen, watching the local competitions last season... And also because I'm a South Africa, there are some "outside factors" I had to consider. So, here's my reasons for some of my selections...

Stephen Cook and Ahmed Amla both had good seasons. In fact Amla had 2 great seasons in a row. That's why I picked them.

This was Heino Kuhn's first series for the Titans (franchise). He's NOT their first choice for 'keeper. and I have a problem playing a keeper as opening bat, anyway. He's not good enough to bat as opener. I've seen him play. Maturity counts in Thami's favour..

I had to go with Henderson, because of the team make-up. And none of the players selected by the other WAT selectors could bring to the team what he can.

I apologise for not understanding how your selection process works...