As soon as the season ends (not long now) I'll be creating the official WAT England 'A' team thread, but in the interim it seems sensible to try and get clearer on the candidates: to that end I'm creating threads on potential openers, potential middle order batsmen, potential wicket-keepers, potential seamers and potential spinners.

In all these discussions I'm going to presume Yardy, Joyce, Clarke, Dalrymple, Broad and Tremlett (and possibly Davies) will be automatic selections: that's not definitive as every place is up for debate.... but given that the above are early favourites I'd like to see arguments as to why any of these should NOT be included as well as arguments as to why others should play alongside / instead of them.

Anyway... this thread is for seamers... perhaps frontrunners Broad and Tremlett... maybe someone who can also bat at 8... but whoever grabs.

Note: if you haven't already registered an interest in being a co-selector then please vote in this poll." >potemtial openers, potential middle order batsmen and potential seamers.

On bowling alone Clarke does not shout out and say pick me IMO, so on that score I won't be voting for Clarke as a bowler, but maybe for his batting on another thread.

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Ern

Graham Onions has put forward a strong case this season, with 51 wickets in 14 games at 28.88 making him the leading eligible wicket taker in the County Championship, playing his first full season in a tough division 1 with a newly promoted county side. Add to this his selection for the ODI squad to face Pakistan at Southampton, and I think a test call-up is a very feasible prospect for Graham.

Charlie Shreck is clearly there too, as is possibly Tom Smith of Lancashire, but I'll allow Notts Exile and Ernest to make the cases for those guys.

At international level, consistency and ability to build pressure by bowling to a plan strike me as more important than ability to bowl the occasional 'unplayable' delivery: supposed 'wonder' bowlers just end up being a liability (and not bowled at all, cast into rightful obscurity in the manner of Sami). To that end I'm inclined to discount anyone who gets carted at county level... meaning out with Onions, Shreck and Mahmood.

Tremlett and Mascarenhas are the two 'tidy' bowlers available... and the two great prospects are Broad and Tom Smith: I'm not averse to arguments to the contrary but right now that's my favoured pecking order.

Onions' economy rate in first class matches is 3.77. That is pretty much par for a fast bowler and perfectly acceptable - certainly not in the "carted" category (!!!), especially given his wicket tally and average. As for being carted, Mascarenhas was very expensive tonight against Gloucestershire, going for 29 off 4 overs - I'm aware that this is one-day cricket but if the ball doesn't move he will be limited in his effectiveness. Pace is good both with the new ball and the old one which reverses incredibly effectively at pace.

Mascarenhas has been going at < 2.5 / over this season. Tremlett has almost certainly bowled to more aggressive plans and with more attacking fields and has still managed a just-about-creditworthy 3.13. Sidebottom is a better measure of where Onions needs to be: 2.65 / over.

Virtually all quality Test bowlers manage < 2.80 / over. Any more than that generally indicates too many loose deliveries (in the manner of Sami or my ultimate pet hate, Devon Malcolm). Argue his corner by all means... as I might end up being a lone voice for control... but I need some serious evidence that Onions can deliver 3-4 overs without a bad ball before I shift on this.

ps. Tom Smith, a real newcomer, has managed an economy rate of 2.79 so far this season... and he's taken 30 wickets at a decent average: at first glance his case looks stronger than Onions' case.

What are his average and wickets tally? 32.60 and 30 (strike rate 70 against Onions' 45). So I would disagree that his case is stronger than Onions as he is seemingly far less penetrative. Do we want stock bowlers or strike bowlers? I wonder if Smith routinely bowls four overs without a bad ball? What about bowling four overs without a really good ball? There's always a flip side in these matters, and if a bowler cannot upset the batsmen (and I don't necessarily mean by bouncing him) what good is he?

As for the 2.8 per over threshold you set, that is only matched by quality spin bowlers and the elite in fast bowling of Glenn McGrath and Shaun Pollock in modern test cricket - it's a nice ideal but is it realistic? County bowlers going at that rate would be very unlikely to keep it low in test cricket when faced with Yousuf, Ponting, Sehwag et al.

Jason Gillespie is no giant of bowling in the manner of McGrath, Ambrose, Wasim Akram or whoever... and yet his career economy rate is 2.85. Vaas isn't a bowling giant but his figure is 2.66. Heath Streak's is 2.69. That's just the first three names I came up with - no cherry picking.

Harmison, Hoggard, Ntini, Nel and others are over the 3.0 mark... but not by much... and that's playing the best in the world (Nel's first class rate is 2.76 to his test rate of 3.02). How about Collymore as a marker: 2.83 in 1st class and 2.81 in Tests.

Onions clearly has something going for him or he'd not be in the ODI squad... and if he gets to play in some ODI games we'll doubtless get to hear more about him.... so maybe he'll make it - but the case doesn't currently stack up for me.

I personally would work off a short list of Stuart Broard, Tom Smith, Charlie Shreck, Chris Tremlett, James Bruce, Graham Onions and possibly Dimitri Mascharenhas who performs every season but his time may have passed. Kabir Ali has reasonable stats but its only division 2 batting and I just dont rate him. The first 4 and Onions all have reasonable pace about them and could open, but I would rate Mascharenhas as probably the best of the lot with an older ball, and he could be the solution to the spinner problem, pick him and two (probably Yardy and Dalrymple) batting spinners and theres plenty of bowling for the middle overs with the old ball.

Didn't hurt his cause yesterday: took 5/75 in a single-handed demolition of Middlesex's middle order - though you'd have thought they might have learnt a bit from the early season encounter: in that match he took 12-129!

He's older than someof our other contenders... but he's got the advantage of being left arm over... and he's a master of pitched up swing rather than being a Tremlett-like steepling-bounce merchant. Highly credible.... and like Sidebottom's selection last year, his inclusion would be a very welcome indication that we value and rate county performances and can look beyond youth and the academy.