I thought Batty had played too many tests too be eligible, is he on the lists of players?

Marshall's a verey defensive leggie, bowls flat and doesn't turn it much. He's played quite a bit of limited over stuff but not much CC cricket.

Swanny hasn't had the greatest season at Trent Bridge. He isn't held in the highest regard by Notts members. If he was ever going to be called up it was last year but Fletcher and Co went for Loudon!

Batty could figure: it's been an awfully long time since he played a meaningful Test... and you could argue he's only played 5 Tests because in his 2005 matches the seamers rolled Bangladesh over before he could get on to bowl! I certainly think he makes a good benchmark for discussing spin options: if a yougster isn't out-performing Batty then I'm not sure the youngster should be included!

On a practical note.... I'd love to see a specialist spinner in the side... with Dalrymple as the second spinner... but I'm not sure Batty is good enough to qualify as a specialist: he's a damn fine bowling all-rounder to have as a second spinner... and perhaps offers more than Dalrymple... but the need is perhaps for a frontline spinner to come on at first change on all pitches... and my impression remains that he's no Panesar!

Ive seen him a few times this season and its done nothing but convince me the we miss Keedy (or Murali). At least now weve got that Kharthik we had last year so the seamers can have a rest. I wouldnt see it as a problem if he could tie sides down properly like Giles, but at the moment he cant, he just gets milked. Hes on that spin match the ECB are doing so maybe hes seen as having potential, but at this stage I dont think hes good enough.

I meant by that Colly "I wish" - in other words I hope he comes good, [I wish] England had a good leggie, that's all.

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Ern

Well if we are looking at spinners then we need to know if we want a batsman who turns his arm over like Dalrymple,a potential all rounder like Rashid or an ordinary spinner like Lawson (just using him as an example).

Dalrymple averages 39 with the ball yet Rashid averages around 20 and Lawson under 30 so it depends if you want Dalrymple's supposed superior batting though he only averages 32 this season.

Are there any other spinners at any other county that we need to look at?

'Batting' Spinners:

Dalrymple
Batty
Phillips (Essex)
Middlebrook
Blackwell
Swann
Louden

That's about it. I'm a big fan of Ian Blackwell, but Phillips has played pretty well for Essex this year.

I tried to think of alternatives for this list, but I'm so impressed by the performances of Rashid, Lawson and Doshi this season (and last for Doshi) that I feel there are no other outstanding alternatives. I think we should keep the shortlist very short here. We are looking for the best, after all.

Quite. From what I can see on a quick survey, no other eligible spinner has really performed credibly as a bowler: we might find a credible second spinner amongst the batting options... but the likes of Batty, Dalrymple and Louden would have to get into the side as middle order batsmen who can bowl a bit given their dire bowling stats.

Loudon for one disappoints me, he did well last year and seemed all set to break into the ODI side, but has regressed dismally this season. He has a lot to do to impress me again, even if he does have a doosra - Adil Rashid probably has a better googly!

Batty - no, never again, please. Not good enough.