My 2007 Aussie A team follows

Chris Rogers (WA)
Phil Jaques (NSW)
Shane Watson (Qld) deserves a place on batting alone
Adam Voges (WA)
Darren Hussey (Vic)
Cameron White (Vic) (captain)strike rate gets him over the line
Brad Haddin (NSW) (vice captain)
Luke Butterworth (Tas) man of the match 2007 Pura Cup final
Cullen Bailey (SA) Like Quagmire my thoughts he is a leggie and thats an X factor in his favor.
Shaun Tait (SA)
Ben Hilfenhaus (Tas)
12th man
Mitchell Johnson (Qld)

I opted for Cullen Bailey for similar reasons to Quagmire. Rachael I realise his economy rate is high. He is currently working with Terry Jenner and I believe his economy will probably be the easiest thing to work out. The main thing is he is a leggie and he has wicket taking deliveries. Horses for courses leggies for Australia.
Shane Watson's domestic averages for 06/07 are virtually non-existant because he was injured at training camp after being selected for the 1st Ashes test. His batting alone got him into the test team and I think it easily should get him into the A team. His batting during the World Cup has been very good.
Cameron White again I put in because of his batting his average is good but as I noted "Admin" said in another teams A team thread you cannot ignore a batsmens strike rate, and Cameron definitely has one of the best in the country. And in addition he seems like he has been around the scene forever but he is not even 24 yet and finally captaincy; Cameron is a proven leader and deserves to lead this squad.
Brad Haddin speaks for himself Luke Ronchi was runner up to him.
Luke Butterworth 23 yo only just scraped in with the mandatory 5 matches. His impressive bowling average of 19 for a player so early in his carreer swayed me towards him expecially considering one of those 5 matches was the Pura cup (shield final) where he was named man of the match. The fact he is a reasonable bat also helped as did the fact that he is not just relying on pace to get his wickets he is seaming it. He is also maintaining a healthy bowling average of 31.5 over 26 domestic one dayers.
Shaun Tait was a no brainer Ben Hilfenhaus narrowly got the nod over Mitchell Johnson. nathan Bracken missed due to his lack of previous success over the longer form of the game including tests combined with his age.
Another player I considered but still think needs to do some work is Mark Cosgrove of South Australia.

It's way too early to jump the gun on Heal. He's had one season, let's take a look at Dan Cullen's stats after one season...

Dan Cullen, 10 matches, 410 overs, 1306 runs, 43 wickets, 30.37 avg, 3.18 E.R

This was 3 years ago when Cullen debuted, in the most recent season he averaged 41. Let's see how Heal does over the next 2 years. Personally, I believe Bailey has more room to grow and will develop into a much better spinner. I can't wait to see how Bailey does over the next 3 or so years.

Do we go on experience, talent or form, and where does Cameron White stand as a spinner in this discussion?

__________________
Bill Ponsford - The only one who could play in Bradman’s company and make it a duet.

Funny thing Cameron is obviously concentrating mainly on his batting rather than his bowling, yet the young turks of Australian spinning coming through the best only has a bowling average marginally better than him and the others averages are worse. Cameron seems to be still sitting high in the spinning hopefulls more by default.
It shows Shane Warnes dont just grow on trees or come straight off the production line when the old model retires.
Australian cricket may go down the path of just useing Cameron White and Michael Clarke if these current spin hopefulls dont improve more.

I veiw experience vs age: eg. White has had a fair taste of international selection and is under 24 that carries more weight with me than someone such as Haddin who has also had a fair taste of international selection but is only just under 30

I agree with talent and form this years performances definitely should carry more weight than previous, the recent discussion about Dan Cullen being a classic example.

Should we consider a few other things in particular with the spinners, considering none of them are blowing us away with exciting bowling figures or performances; should we add more weight to thier batting performances in which case White wins hands down. Has the name Nathan Hauritz been too quickly forgotten I think he might have pulled the wrong cord going to New South Wales considering thier first pick spinner is always going to be SCG McGill. He might have been right up there in this discussion if he had of chose another state or stayed where he was.

Well these are some of the stats of the young spinners in Australian domestic cricket.

Aaron Heal - 24 yrs - slow left arm orthodox, 10 FC Matches, 24 wickets at 35.25, bb 5/57, Econ 2.98, St 70.87
Dan Cullen - 23 yrs - right arm offbreak, 32 FC Matches, 97 wickets at 41.22, bb 5/38, Econ 3.24, Sr 76.28
Cameron White - 23 yrs - legbreak googly - 133 FC Matches, 133 wickets at 39.48, bb 6/66, Econ 3.51, Sr 67.36
Cullen Bailey - 22 yrs - legbreak googly - 17 FC Matches, 54 wickets at 41.51, bb 5/146, Econ 3.75, Sr 66.29

Shane Warnes domestic career would not have been much better at there age.

__________________
Bill Ponsford - The only one who could play in Bradman’s company and make it a duet.

What stands out from that list is that NONE of the bowlers are (as yet) frontline attacking options... but the sheer maturity of Heal stands out: he has been building pressure for his captain even when only taking the occasional wicket... which ties in with the judgement of the England players during the Ashes tour that Heal was (in terms of current ability) the best of the replacement spinners.

Potential obviously matters in 'A' teams... but so does rewarding effort... and one thing the Aussies have generally got right in the past is valuing "caps": leggies like White and Bailey should NOT (because they do the sexy leg-spin thing and have potential) leapfrog more deserving (if less glamorous) orthodox bowlers.

Bailey has time on his side: if he can get his act together he can make a case for next year's 'A' side. Cameron White has HAD time but still leaves the same old questions unanswered - he's not good enough as a specialist bat (when compared with Voges, North, etc), he's seemingly given up trying to be a specialist bowler... and he plays in a side that's not renowned for picking specialist captains.


I'm also unconvinced by Butterworth: Mitchell Johnson is a genuine swing bowler with both huge potential AND a proven record. He's a player who's action has had the very best coaches and players singing his praises and identifying him as a THE key bowler for Australia for the next decade.

Butterworth needs to do a lot more than make a grand entrance to eclipse that sort of build-up!

Shane Warnes domestic carreer was a lot shorter than those guy's, and when he bowled "that ball" to Gatting in the 1993 ashes he was 23 yrs 261 Days
Shane was 22yrs 110 days on his test debut against India on January 2nd 1992

Of these contenders we have in order of age today
Cullen Bailey 22 yrs 57 days
Daniel Cullen 23yrs 14 days
Cameron White 23yrs 249 days
Arron Heal 24yrs 42 days
Beau Casson 24yrs 138 days
Nathan Hauritz 25yrs 188 days

Now Australia wont play a test until later this year so even my spinner pick Cullen Bailey wont debut any younger than Shane even if he does get a miraculous call up.

Allthough I must admit Warnes 42.65 bowling average during the 91/92 first class season does'nt exactly electrify me. But that includes the hammering the Indians gave him in his 1st test take that match out and he was respectively in the low 30's. Which is better than anyone we are looking at here.

I think he is more of an good economical type who will do well domestically and may hold up an end, but I still think Bailey a leggie 2yrs behind him experience wise also competing in the same team with another usefull spinner Cullen is the man I go for. Maybe I'm weighting potential a bit heavier than you, maybe I'm more prepared to gamble a risk more than you.
P.S I think Tait is a frontline attacking aggresive bowler as is Hilfenhaus.

Hang on Cameron White is a totally different proposition to Bailey, Cameron is a hard hitting high strike rate lower middle order batsman mainly. In fact he is a huge hitter in the mould of Symonds, Botham, Afridi, Oram and Lance and Chris Cairns and allready at his young age of 23 he is tracking very nicely in batting alone. But big strike rates tend to lend to a slight sacrifice in ones average and thats what is happening with him. But at the same time he is still averaging a whisker short of 40 in the toughest domestic comp in the world. Captaining Victoria and Somerset shows just how many strings to his bow Cameron posseses. The fact his spin is still in contention considering the national squad coaching is basically pouring it into his batting defines a cricketer you just cannot box into one category. For mine his batting alone gets him over the line in what has been a disruptive season on and off call for the national squad and the man regarded the most unluckiest missing out on a world cup spot.

How cant time be on his side Rachael, he is over 3 years younger than Voges or North ?


Mitchell's praises identifying him as the THE key bowler for Australia for the next decade were delivered by Dennis Lillee 5 years ago. Funny thing is that I was at a wedding the other week in northern NSW and was seated with another guest who had recently been at a dinner with Jeff Thomson at which Thommo stated that one of his sons went to a coaching clinic ran by Lillee and they tried to change his action and that Thommo contacted the organisers and blasted them. Thommo also commented that thankfully they had not got thier hands on one of my other selections Shaun Tait. As I said Mitchell was a close second to Butterworth in my squad. But I gave gave it Butterworth because Ricky Ponting praised him earlier in the season during one of the rare times Ricky captained Tasmania and in those 5 matches he had which just got him to mandatory qualification he came in with the very impressive average of 19 and almost averaged 5 wickets per match. And they were not just any matches they were those in the conclusion to the Pura Cup and in the Pura Cup itself where Butterworth got man of the match for 60 runs and a 4wkt hall in the 1st Innings and a century in the second. One thing Australia has had in abundance is batting allrounders like Steve Waugh, Andrew Symonds, Simon O'Donnell, Cameron White and Shane Watson the rare bird we have not had is a bowling allrounder like England had in Ian Botham and to a lesser extent Andrew Flintoff. That rare bird may well be Luke Butterworth.

133 must I presume is a typo quaggy or did he start at 5yrs old