Horton
Denly
Shah
Hildreth
Carberry
Mustard (W)
Swann
Broad
Tremlett
Onions?
Bresnan

IMO Swann is the #1 spinner, and Mustard would be my preferred 1 keeper.

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Ern

I'm afraid we shall have to agree to disagree. If you think there has EVER been a good Test wicket (anywhere in the world) that has NOT warranted spinners in tandem on days 4 and 5 (or that top Test grounds like the SCG and Old Trafford would warrant four decent seamers over 3 decent seamers and 2 decent and contrasting spinners) then I fear we might as well give up on trying to converse on the subject of cricket.

I find your attitude on this matter even more dispiriting than your Ern-like obsession with the pace of seam bowlers. I wonder, at times, if the pair of you would prefer an attack of Devon Malcolm, Sajid Mahmood, Harmison in 2006 Ashes form and early-career Flintoff with support from Ashley Giles to an attack of Angus Fraser, Mike Hendrick, Alec Bedser, Jim Laker and Derek Underwood.

I regard that side as an abomination. What on earth does Bresnan offer that Broad, Tremlett and Onions do not? If the side includes five bowlers then it MUST include both Rashid and Swann (both of whom are surely closer to a place on this winter's tour than either Onions OR Bresnan).

Jim Laker and Underwood played on uncovered wickets.

Mahmood - Harmison - Malcolm - Hendrick - Underwood, would be a GREAT attack.
But we can't select these retired players.

I doubt that Rashid will get on the winter tour, if he was near selection he would be in the current squad.

How can you say that both Rashid and Swann are likely to be selected for this winters tour?, what about Panesar?, is he going to be left out - or are England going to take 3 spinners, I doubt that. So which spinner is going to lose out Rachael?
And Rachael, what is wrong with pace?, it's OK when it's your hero Marshall - why should England not look for a pace bowler with penetration?.

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Ern

If the quality of spinners are there then I have no problem with two spinners. I would quite happily have 2 of Warne, Murali, Kumble, Saqlain.... in a side, especially where there was the offer of turn, bounce or a crumbling wicket. The problem is when the spinners aren't of that special quality you end up picking them for the sake of it. Rashid is nowhere near good enough to be picked as a second spinner unless the wicket is a raging "bunsen".

In an ideal world I would love an attack to consist of a world class fast bowler, a skilled seamer, 2 spinners and an allrounder. In the world we live in most spinners in world cricket aren't good enough (only 2 teams have good spinners at the moment and Kumbles almost finished) and most 4th/5th day wickets offer no turn, bounce etc so any average spinner will be canon fodder.

Your attack would be effective in the 1960's but to be honest, and i do rate Hedrick, Bedser and Underwood very highly it wouldn't be very effective on today's pitches. Hendrick and Fraser would get little assistance and neither would Laker. However an attack of Trueman, Botham, Bedser, Hendrick and Underwood would fare well on today's wickets and allow England to play 6 batsman.

I admit i view pace being essential to an attack. Having played cricket to a reasonably high standard i know what difference it makes. As a batsman you can line up a medium pacer easily, even if the ball is moving whereas if there is some pace you get dragged into playing at balls you could have left. Its the same thing as a bowler I can bowl and swing the ball away from the bat and get a lot of batsman fishing way outside off. Against a good (Minor counties) batsman he will simply watch and leave, get his eye in and then belt me through the offside as I'm not quick enough, so i have to bowl closer to off and risk getting hit through the leg side if i veer onto middle and off.. If I try and run the ball back into him he has enough time to correct for the movement... I dont wish to patronise anyone, but those who play the game will know what i mean

Back On Topic at test level pace is even more important as 88mph is the level where the ball arrives faster than a batsmans reflexes can cope.

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Mark.

Have we all agreed on a squad yet?? Its almost at the point where we will be starting this all over again for the 2008 side .

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Mark.

Rachael - Are we agreed on a squad or not?. If so what is that squad?.

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Ern