Hide/show banner
World A-Team Cricket Forum

Welcome to the World-A-Team Cricket Forum. We promote friendly, good-natured, quality cricket discussion.
Go Back   World A-Team Cricket Forum > World A-Teams
Sitemap Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Contact Us Chat Room Shoutbox News Podcasts Fantasy Cricket

World A-Teams National A teams are selected by our members. WAT Future Test Player Award voting. Up-and-coming players are discussed. Recent interviews: Davey Jacobs; Graeme Aldridge; Hashim Amla; Joseph Yovich; Morne van Wyk; Richard Sherlock; Other interviews

Reply Without Quote
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 02:21 AM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
WAT selector - England A 2005
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed W.G. Grace's 1098 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: England
Posts: 1,119
Send a message via Yahoo to Mike
I can't believe Bob Woolmer said this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Woolmer
Controversially I would allow the bowler the opportunity to rub one side of the ball in the rough to allow for reverse swing.
See the rest of the article.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 07:13 AM in reply to Mike's post "I can't believe Bob Woolmer said this"
Rachael Rachael is offline
Administrator
WAT selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed Mike Atherton's 7728 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 7,731
Why not? It's no different from Rugby Union deciding to allow players to lift each other legally at the line out - that was an illegal practice but many youngsters have grown up with it being fully sanctioned!

The key thing is the positive intent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolmer
I believe that the bowler should be allowed to swing the ball, ether conventionally or with reverse swing [...] Bats are bigger and better and batsmen can clear the ground with comparative ease. The ball remains the same [...] Could the manufacturers produce a ball that swings the whole game?
The game has never really recovered from the covering of the wickets: that move shifted the game so massively away from the bowlers that the entire concept of cricket being an attritional contest between bat and ball simply disappeared.. and the changes since then (back foot rule, bringing boundaries in, bouncer law, etc) have just made matters worse.

I would prefer to see the manufacturers produce balls that swung conventionally... but if reverse through working the ball is the only option then sobeit.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 07:48 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Why not? It's no different from Rugby..."
flanflinger's Avatar
flanflinger flanflinger is offline
WAT England A Selector-2005
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(AUS-captain) Passed Kim Hughes' 4415 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bristol
My main national team: England
My other team/s: Surrey and the Mighty Mighty Quinns
Posts: 4,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael
that the entire concept of cricket being an attritional contest between bat and ball simply disappeared.. .
Thank goodness for that!! Who wants to see that anyway..

I believe that the game should have a good contest between bat and ball, but the Cricket I have watched over the last 4-5 years has been awesome. The Ashes series was one of the best ever.

Bowlers have had to think and use lots of skill to get wickets, much better than just turning up and finding the pitch does it all for them.

Even with all the new rules that are supposed to inhibit the bowlers- how many drawn games do we see these days?

For me the balance is right, and I would not want the bowlers being allowed to deliberately ruff up the ball on the turf to "correct" that balance.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 08:39 AM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Thank goodness for that!! Who wants to..."
Ernest's Avatar
Ernest Ernest is offline
Administrator
WAT England A Selector
(WI-captain) Passed Brian Lara's 11953 Test runs
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lancashire
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
My other team/s: ::All "Test" Playing Nations
Posts: 13,524
Send a message via Yahoo to Ernest Send a message via Skype™ to Ernest
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanflinger

Even with all the new rules that are supposed to inhibit the bowlers- how many drawn games do we see these days?
Not as many draws as used to be. lits of games are over in 3 to 4 days.

If players are not allowed to rough up the ball, then certain players like a imfamous Lancashire player will manage somehow.
To be honest though Wollmer should get real, a purple patch at the moment, but soon they would be one of the first teams to suffer.

there are lots better bowlers than batsmen in the world at the moment, and Englands seam attack would with Hoggard and Anderson would be the main ones to benefit.
__________________
Ern
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 08:39 AM in reply to flanflinger's post starting "Thank goodness for that!! Who wants to..."
Rachael Rachael is offline
Administrator
WAT selector
Selector-World XI (1980 onwards)
(ENG-captain) Passed Mike Atherton's 7728 Test runs
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 7,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by flanflinger
Bowlers have had to think and use lots of skill to get wickets, much better than just turning up and finding the pitch does it all for them.
Pollock is extremely skillful and is frequently negated by flat tracks... and the same has too often been true for Gillespie, Vaas, Langveldt, Collymore, Hoggard, Zoysa and many, many other very, very good bowlers.

Martin Bicknell should have had a glittering Test career but never got a shout because pitches favoured batsmen too much: unresponsive pitches drive selectors AWAY from skillful bowlers and towards extreme pace and bounce.

Much the same is true for spinners: Kumble rarely finds the bounce and turn he needs to really shine.... leaving lesser mortals a hopeless task. Off-spin has found so little help on world-wide wickets that specialists who CAN do something... like Harbhajan and Udal... are all but disappearing.

In the recent Pura cup final one side posted somehting like 900 in one innings: that's not from cricket as a meaningful contest between bat and ball!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 10:47 AM in reply to Rachael's post starting "Pollock is extremely skillful and is..."
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
WAT selector - England A 2005
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed W.G. Grace's 1098 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: England
Posts: 1,119
Send a message via Yahoo to Mike
I'm not sure that bowler selection would change if the wickets reverted to uncovered. I think Harmison and Flintoff would be even more dangerous on uncovered pitches with the uneven bounce and plenty of seam. So, Martin Bicknell might still not get selected. Woolmer did say that the contest between bat and ball is an issue the ICC has to manage so it doesn't favour either batsman or bowler. I think 400+ runs is way too much for 50 overs. That's more like 20/20 style hitting and the bowlers aren't going to enjoy getting plastered all over the park at grounds like The Wanderers. Even a one-day pitch has to have something in it for the bowlers. However, I don't think ball-tampering is the way to go. Perhaps the ICC will allow manufacturers to make new balls that reverse swing from the off? I hope not. That means bowlers don't need to develop that skill if the ball does it naturally. There has to be other solutions to keeping the contest balanced.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 03:26 PM in reply to Mike's post starting "I'm not sure that bowler selection..."
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
WAT selector - England A 2005
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG-captain) Passed W.G. Grace's 1098 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
My main national team: Australia
My other team/s: England
Posts: 1,119
Send a message via Yahoo to Mike
This is Simon Mann's opinion of what makes a good one-day pitch:
Quote:
Forget the run bonanzas.

The best one-day pitches give the bowlers a chance. The surface at Feroz Shah Kotla offered turn for the spinners and variable bounce and pace for the seamers.

It made for a fluctuating contest and a bizarre outcome.
Does anyone agree with that?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 03:34 PM in reply to Mike's post starting "I'm not sure that bowler selection..."
gangstacocacola gangstacocacola is offline
(ENG) Passed Clare Taylor's 226 Test runs
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
My main national team: Pakistan
Posts: 224
i think that the icc have to do something about this otherwise soon, all a team would need is 11 batsman and 5 part time bowlers. if a bowler is going to get hit around the park because there is no assistance from the pitch and it feels like you are playing on a concrete strip, why select full time bowlers as the only way to get someone out would be if the batsman would make a mistake.i think that in a 50 over game the max runs that should be made is around 320. and that can only happen if the pitch has some assiatnce tot he bowlers. 400+ in a 50 over game i believe is ridiculous. batsman should be made to work for their runs, and likewise for the bowlers to be made to work for their wickets. in a test match you cant win with runs, only with wickets.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 04:36 PM in reply to gangstacocacola's post starting "i think that the icc have to do..."
Vrock's Avatar
Vrock Vrock is offline
Moderator
WAT Journalist  
Creator of WAT Cricketers of the Year 2005
Read my Articles
WAT selector - West Indies A
WAT England A Selector-2005
(ENG-captain) Passed Ted Dexter's 4502 Test runs
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yorkshire
My main national team: England
My other team/s: West Indies, Yorkshire
Posts: 4,433
Send a message via Yahoo to Vrock
In Test matches where there is pretty limited help for the bolwers, little bit of seam and swing early, little bit of spin. We have been seeing scores of 350 in recent matches. This is all well and good, the bowlers are dominating games a bit at the moment IMO but as soon as we see 350 in half the amount of time in an ODI then surely it's the pitch not giving the bowlers the chance to do something.

Creating balls to reverse swing straight off would be an hurrendous idea, Simon Jones may as well have just sat on his bum rather than spend time in the nets mastering the art.
__________________
Watch this for a perfect about.
James May
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28-03-2006, 07:47 PM in reply to Vrock's post starting "In Test matches where there is pretty..."
Mr Hutt's Avatar
Mr Hutt Mr Hutt is offline
Slightly Nuts & Lovin it
WAT Journalist  Read my Articles
(ENG) Passed Eddie Paynter's 1540 Test runs
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Karachi/Pakistan
My main national team: None - I support cricket in general
Posts: 1,524
Send a message via MSN to Mr Hutt Send a message via Yahoo to Mr Hutt
three words to say to this article... "bobs lost it"
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply Without Quote


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:17 PM.

Page generated in 0.684 seconds (71.54% PHP - 28.46% MySQL) with 13 queries

Partner Sites: - pakistancricketzone.com | Fantasy Cricket | Cricket World Cup Images | Cricket 24/7 | Third Umpire | Indian Cricket League

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0