WAT England 'A' 2007: build up thread.

[Ernest]

Joyce
Shah
Bopara
Tremlett
Luke Sutton
Swann
Rashid
Onions
Kabir Ali
Gidman
Simon James Marshall, as a wild card - can bat as well as bowl leg breaks.

My selections in no particular order.

Mike I know Mahmood has played 8 Tests, but did not Rachael get a concession for a player last year?, I think the fact that Mahmood was forced into the England side before he was ready, is an extenuating circumstance which might have let him creep back in - after all he has only played 8 Tests.

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Rachael

... and on top of that he's the most appalling character: his pathetic levels of application (recall his failing to even back up properly in the Ashes) are extremely reminiscent of Devon Malcolm. At least Monty, for all his evdent failings, actually WORKS at being a better all-round cricketer: Mahmood can't even manage THAT!

I am not keen on his attitude. When playing Test cricket he sulked because the captain didn't bowl him enough and said he wondered why he was picked as a bowler. Then on tour, when not selected to play he told his cousin that he wished he was at home and that appeared in the press. His fielding is very casual and being a bowler he should know that every run that he lets by goes on the other bowlers' figures. After his injury he was talking about playing for England again in the summer and using his county to improve his prospects. Someone must have had a word because soon after that he changed his story to say that he wants to do his best for Lancs and play the rest of the season and then hopefully he could get a tour place.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

I am not keen on his attitude. When playing Test cricket he sulked because the captain didn't bowl him enough and said he wondered why he was picked as a bowler[...] Someone must have had a word because soon after that he changed his story to say that he wants to do his best for Lancs and play the rest of the season and then hopefully he could get a tour place.

On your first point that just proves he is a potential Test player does it not?, he should sulk if the captain would not bowl him, he should want to bowl for his side more than anything.

On your secong point a fast bowler should have attitude, in fact most of the best fast bowlers have had an attitude in one way or another, really all that was at fault IMO was his original choice of words.

I think if a player is competative, he/she is bound to have an attitude to some degree, that in part makes a player competative.

Rachael has this thing over Mahmood, and to a greater extent Devon Malcolm, if anyone ever watched Malcolm play - they would know he gave his all, he was expensive at times sure, but he took important top order wickets, and without his lone influence in English true fast bowling, I dount there would have been a Simon Jones, a Steve Harmison or even a Flintoff.

The England selectors were desperate to find a true fast bowler, England had Willis - but since Snow had no real pace bowlers until Malcolm, he finished his international career early (not long after demolishing the South African's) probable for political reasons, but was still a force in county cricket right up until he retired.

Mahmood and Tremlett are the future of England pace bowling IMO, and to rubbish Mahmood, and praise Broad as was done earlier - is just plain nonsence IMO.

And while on that subject - I would like like to put Rachael wise as to why Malcolm at first was a poor fielder, it was because of his eyesight, he improved when he got fitted with contact lenses.

We are selecting an A Team, and such a team is meant to be a learning experience - and to iron out wrinkles from players like Mahmood and others who with coaching and practice would be world class players.

[Andy Mellon]

Mahmood is not available for selection for the A Team as he's played over 5 tests. The only exception to this rule is where a player has played 5 or more tests, but hasn't played test cricket for over 3 years AND their domestic form suggests that they deserve another chance. This has been used for James Foster (England) and Matthew Bell (New Zealand) in the past, but clearly doesn't apply to Mahmood who has played most of his tests in the last twelve months.

According to BBC Sport, Mahmood has only played 6 games this season anyway, and is averaging only 37.15 with the ball in a summer during which the conditions have been more favourable for seamers than spinners.

What exactly has he done this year to deserve selection?

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by Andy Mellon

Mahmood is not available for selection for the A Team as he's played over 5 tests. The only exception to this rule is where a player has played 5 or more tests, but hasn't played test cricket for over 3 years AND their domestic form suggests that they deserve another chance.

I know the rules andy - I thought that in this instance the Mahmood had extenuating circumstances that should have made him eligable, but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Andy

What exactly has he done this year to deserve selection?

Not a lot this year - but selectors should not go on just one years stats, if we did that - then Hick and Crawley should be in the one day side, and Ramp's would be an automatic selection for the Test side.

Not the best county players always make the best England players by a long chalk -many players have good international form - but their domestic for is not as good, and visa versa.

How can you go on four games this year?, I am going on how he managed the cauldron he was shoved into in Australia due to the worst squad selection ever.

It's all academic in any case - he would never get selected, by WAT or the media commentators who would select players with record no better.

Tell me a player in England with as much pace, and with as much possible potential as Mahmood?.

[admin]

I think it's about time we chose a Chairman of Selectors to chair the selection of the A Team. I think we should give an opportunity to someone who hasn't done it before. Are there any volunteers?

[adamberry]

Lancs tinted spectacles...

Originally Posted by Ernest

Luke Sutton [...] Simon James Marshall, as a wild card - can bat as well as bowl leg breaks.

Sutton is not good enough with the bat as far as I'm concerned, despite being a tidy keeper. As for Marshall, in competition with Rashid and with the reputation of once being hit for 34 in an over... I don't think so.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by adamberry

Sutton is not good enough with the bat as far as I'm concerned, despite being a tidy keeper.

I think adam that Sutton has to be as good a choice as any, no matter which county he comes from.

We have heard all this keeper has to bat before, G O Jones the great flop of England keeper barsmen, followed thus far by Prior - the fact IMO is that England have not had a batting keeper worth the name since Stewart, and he was the best since A.P.E Knott.

As for Marshall I said he was a wild card - just plucking at a leggie - but don't be to sure Yorkshire are handling Rashid as they should???.

[darksideofthemoon]

Originally Posted by Ernest

On your first point that just proves he is a potential Test player does it not?, he should sulk if the captain would not bowl him, he should want to bowl for his side more than anything.

You don't see Hoggard or the other England bowlers sulking when they are not bowed, in fact you don't see many bowlers doing that. He should understand why the captain is not bowling him. There is attitude and bad attitude.

[Ernest]

Originally Posted by darksideofthemoon

You don't see Hoggard or the other England bowlers sulking when they are not bowed, in fact you don't see many bowlers doing that.

No I agree over Hoggy - but look at the attitude of Flintoff and Harmison, hardly any worse than that of Mahmood.

Flintoff thought he was God and could walk on water, and Harmison thought he should not go down under.

Mahmood might have attitude, but he and Plunkett took the brunt of the Aussies batting - at least he was there/