This year's WAT England 'A' 2007 nominations thread has not produced a lot of action... and as a result it looks as if we have just four candidates to open the batting:This thread is for discussing the relative merits of each...

In due course (when the arguments for and against have been made) I shall open a poll to see which players have the requisite support to make a shortlist.

Looking through the candidates...

Horton's season produced a an impressive average... and he was only bettered by Law... and completely eclipsed colleagues who included the much vaunted Brad Hodge.

Edwards was, by comparison, well down the averages at Taunton.. but having said that... only Tresco passed 50 as consistently. Not converting 50s to 100s is no big deal at this stage in his career.. and he clearly deserves serious consideration.

Denly batted on the notoriously batsman-friendly Kent wickets (on which Key averaged 56.81) but contributed more like Geraint Jones than like the bullying pie eater.

Godleman is the youngest of the quartet.. and whilst a nice tip for the future (long term) has a long way to go if he's to get selected on merit rather than potential.

At first glance... Horton and Edwards would appear the obvious candidates of the nominations... but if we have doubts we should not be afraid to promote a middle order to open: I'd prefer to see a more worthy player promoted than see rewards thrown at folk who haven't really earned them.

Really Rach, I'm a little bit ****** off with your constant berations of the Canterbury wicket. When, may I ask, was the last time you went to Canterbury? I'll point you in the direction of the Kent v Surrey match this season, where neither side could muster more than 215. Really batsman friendly, ey? And that wasn't the only match like it.

Oh yes, and what exactly do you mean by the Geraint Jones reference? The way you've said it, it sounds rather derogatory...

__________________
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose."
- Ayrton Senna

I think this is a rather contentious issue since many middle-order bats would be hopeless at opening. Carberry had a few innings this year as opener with disasterous results, yet he produced consistently good results further down the order. I think we should base selection on results produced in that position. If we are really desparate for an opener then we could possibly look to a solid #3 batsman but that's where I draw the line.

Denly and Horton for me,Godleman's time will come as he is still a teenager and Edwards is batting on the paradise of Taunton which is easier than the pitches the other 3 had to bat on.

I was under the impression that Langer told the committee and groundsman that Taunton's early season pitches were a disaster and that matters improved progressively thoughout the season (to the great surprise of observers who thought nothing short of ripping the pitches up and relaying them would help).

I've long thought that county stats are actually more comparable if one purely looks at either {a} how one compares with one's colleagues (a pretty limited number); or {b} at away form only. Ultimately, however, there's no substitute for going through on a match by match basis and rating the performances (perhaps granting a battling 50 agaisnt Durham on a sporting pitch a 9 where a double century at the Oval in which the batsman was repreived several times by dropped catches might only merit a 7.

Edit: I should concede, absolutely, that Kent's pitches are not uniquely unsporting any more... but I would still venture that others have sunk to their level rather than vice-versa: I'm prepapred to be argued down with a well informed case...but have my doubts.

Agreed. Just look at the problems New Zealand have had with middle order players opening! It really is a problem when you force good middle order performers like Lou Vincent into facing the new ball. Specialist openers all the way for my mind.

I'd agree that specialist openers are the way forward... and I'm very much from the school of thought that says most of a Test side's batsmen should ideally open the batting for their county.. but that assumes that counties will put their best batsman at the top of the order (to see off the new ball pairing and protect the lesser players)... but not all do!

I've no real objection (yet) to Edwards or Horton... but Denly strikes me as a Twenty20 pinch hitter who has already been found wanting on the subtlety and skills front... and I'm not convinced Godleman's time has yet come - I'd rather go back to Compton... who had a storming year last year and through the winter (where he was the star of the academy tour).

If we get a sustained argument against either Horton or Denly we may need to declare the cupboard bare of credible candidates... and perhaps consider someone like Hildreth.

I'll give it a try a bit later, I need a bit more data first. But for starters; away teams at Canterbury in 2007, on average, mustered innings totals of around 193. It'll be interesting to see how other grounds compare.

I can see we're not going to agree much here. Have you even bothered looking at averages Rach? I think you'll find that the shorter the game, the less Denly averages (50 at first-class level to around 23-25 at T20). There is a difference between how someone strikes you and how someone actually plays. especially when you can't even say you've seen more than one innings in each format by him!

__________________
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose."
- Ayrton Senna

I never said he was a GOOD pinch hitter