Zimbabwe humilated

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by butchering lee

i do kind of get it - it would be a f u to "e ba gum" . but he is both an extremely inept (sometimes cruel) politician and a very shrewd survivor - i wonder where this is going

Butchering Lee

Well I'm not going to comment on Robert Mugabe as I don't feel this is the forum to do so.

But I find it ironic that in a way, that the ECB don't want England to tour Zimbabwe on moral, ethical and safety grounds, and that the current situation regarding the Zimbabwe Cricket Side currently being 'humiliated' has actually be created by 'politics'. In an ironic way, this is almost proving the ECB's point before they've even decided whether to tour or not - talk about the ZCU 'shooting themselves in the foot'.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by James M

I did say 'easy for me to say'! There are quite a few cricketers in Zim who would stengthen the side. Gavin Rennie, Brian Strang, Dirk Viljoen. Not sure if these players are available and whether they would boycott as well, but it would be worth a try. I just feel so sorry for the Zim cricket fans let alone the Zim people.

James

I think this goes beyond 'seeing sense' for many of the rebels, its a point of principle, and their livelihood they're fighting for.

I'm sure there's plenty of Zimbabwe Cricketers that could strengthen the side, but this is exactly why the rebels are doing what they're doing - the ZCU simply won't pick players based on merit alone.

There's no coincidence that the majority of the rebels are white, and the majority of the current Zimbabwe side are black - this pretty much sums up the situation in a nutshell.

Scott

[James M]

What is there to be said that hasn't already? We are all powerless here. It's out of our hands. What is speculation but a fagend for the idle?

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Butchering Lee

Well I'm not going to comment on Robert Mugabe as I don't feel this is the forum to do so.

Scott

i´m a waffler scott, and tend to talk out of turn - but if you don´t think this is the forum to comment on mugabe you´ve managed to separate him from cricket in zim. something few others have been able to.

i sort of regret that post because it needs some explanation - but an explanatory post would have too many characters to post and would only be a verbalisation of my own hang ups with the situation (of little interest to others). needless to say it´s not a simple issue but IMHO some comment on mugabe may be necessary, even on this forum, to understand how such circumstances can come about.

i guess i could be wrong, very occassionally i actually am.

[Richard Jenkins]

Some interseting ideas and thoughts on the situation here, and I can kind of understand the stampede to crush weaker opposition but i can also see that for zimbabwian cricket supporters it must be a head shaking excerises in autoderision.

Ok the Zcu are inviting touring parties. They do so because of financial reasons and that is ultimatly their reason d'être.
The ZCU is a board of political appointees who's cricketing knowledge is minimal. Would England fans want a politician picking the side; John Major was very into cricket, but he didn't try to influence the England side as far as I'm aware. For Mugabwe beating the England cricket side would be a political coup perhaps but I'm guessing at this because I don't know the man or what the situation on the ground in Zimbabwe.

People have debated to tour or not to tour, and rather like Shakespeares character, Zimbabwian cricket supporters are standing at the graveside watching , holding the skull and saying 'alas poor Heath Streak'.
I don't know the solution and mediation may help, one can always hope; Yet I fear an incident of an international nature is going to blight the game of cricket game soon and in all likely hood, sadly the most likely place this will happen is in Zimbabwe.
I hope not, i really do, but it is frustrating to see any cricketing set up dissapear into a political quagmire.

[Richie Benauds Love Child]

Butchering Lee, english cricket is in a rock and a hard place. If we go over and send a second team, we'll easily beat the current side. But what if mad bob brings back heath and one or two of the better players it might not be a cast iron win anymore. If we draw any matches it will be a great result for Zim, but also a great result for mad bob. Who's going to ge the most press ? Mad bob, because he runs the show.

So we send in our best and wipe the floor with them. They'll be demoralised and thats a shame. The aussies will do the same thing, SL already are, and I dont think they be much wringing of hands in those quarters. But we arent playing a true Zim side, in many respects we're playing bob mugabe and his lot. Wiping the floor with them is one in the eye for him.

And its also one in the eye for the ICC, who are as bad as anyone else in trying to kill off english cricket.

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by butchering lee

i´m a waffler scott, and tend to talk out of turn - but if you don´t think this is the forum to comment on mugabe you´ve managed to separate him from cricket in zim. something few others have been able to.

butchering lee

That's fine, I'm not judging you or anyone else on commenting on Mugabe, but I have very strong views on Robert Mugabe and as I indicated, I would prefer to chat about Cricket on this board as I don't really want to go into a 'political rant' about Zimbabwe's leader that may well pose problems for the administrator of the board. I also don't agree that politics has any place in sport, which is part of the reason I prefer not comment on politics.

Originally Posted by butchering lee

i sort of regret that post because it needs some explanation - but an explanatory post would have too many characters to post and would only be a verbalisation of my own hang ups with the situation (of little interest to others). needless to say it´s not a simple issue but IMHO some comment on mugabe may be necessary, even on this forum, to understand how such circumstances can come about.

I fully understand that, and as the situation is largely politically motivated, it is, as you say, hard not to comment on Mugabe, I just prefer not to.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Richie Benauds Love Child

So we send in our best and wipe the floor with them. They'll be demoralised and thats a shame. The aussies will do the same thing, SL already are, and I dont think they be much wringing of hands in those quarters. But we arent playing a true Zim side, in many respects we're playing bob mugabe and his lot. Wiping the floor with them is one in the eye for him.

RBLC

I don't think winning or losing against Zimbabwe will make one iota's difference to Robert Mugabe or the ZCU, if it did, would they have sent out such a weak side that was going to be thrashed by any and everyone? They could have appealled to the ICC about their particular plight - but that would have forced them into resolving the current situation, which clearly they will only do on their terms.

This isn't about winning or losing - its about 'political control' in much the same way as the rest of the country has been subjected to, and sadly its a racial issue as well - very sad times for the world and sport when it comes to this.

Scott

[Scott-Wozniak]

Originally Posted by Richard Jenkins

People have debated to tour or not to tour, and rather like Shakespeares character, Zimbabwian cricket supporters are standing at the graveside watching , holding the skull and saying 'alas poor Heath Streak'.
I don't know the solution and mediation may help, one can always hope; Yet I fear an incident of an international nature is going to blight the game of cricket game soon and in all likely hood, sadly the most likely place this will happen is in Zimbabwe.
I hope not, i really do, but it is frustrating to see any cricketing set up dissapear into a political quagmire.

Richard

I think you pretty much summed this situation up.

I'm not sure you should be too worried about Cricket being 'blighted' in all this - the game of Cricket is just a pawn in this unfortunate game. In an ironic way - this current situation is harming Mugabe and his political party far more than its helping him, because all its doing is focusing the world's attention (or any country where people have a interest in Cricket) on how Mugabe is manipulating his Cricket side for his own political ends, and basically how he runs his country.

Quite how world leaders and the UN can sit by and watch all this happening without doing something about it is quite beyond me, the situation in Zimbabwe is no different from that in Iraq, and we all know what happened in that situation, except perhaps that he doesn't have any non-existent WMD!

Believe me, this situation is not doing Mugabe any good in the eyes of the world, but it's testament to his arrogance that he doesn't really care what the rest of the world thinks.

Scott

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Scott-Wozniak

Richard
Believe me, this situation is not doing Mugabe any good in the eyes of the world, but it's testament to his arrogance that he doesn't really care what the rest of the world thinks.

Scott

careful now.

i´m not sure sport would be interesting without a "bit" of politics. i´ve had dealings with the regime and have strong opinions of my own on zanu (which i, like you, need not talk about).

RBLChild, SL are playing with a weakened team and zim are (at the mo) making a match of it. i think scott´s right though - don´t think mugabe cares either way - the agenda is not specifically sporting.