Zimbabwean ICC Status

[stone bird]

I don't know if zimbabwe need time off...it comes up everytime we get smashed that zimbabwe should be stripped of test match status. when we played against australia last, we then had a test series against the west indies...we should have won the series/we were so close. i think exposure is the best way to improve.

unfortunately zimbabwe have no friends in world cricket. countries like australia, south africa and india aren't going to let zimbabwean players participate in their domestic comps at the expense of local players. south africa would never let a zim provincial side play in their comp...especially since they have recently cut team.

i agree that past players have a role to play in zimbabwean cricket...they seem to quit international cricket and at the same time leave zimbabwean cricket altogether (except for brandes and houghton). Players like campbell left zim cricket on bad grounds and i can half understand him leaving so abruptly, but people like him have to stay to help the younger guys out (his knowledge of the game would be vast).

Guy Whittall is a player that really disgusts me, he is an extremely arrogant character. He left zimbabwean cricket without feuding with anyone to live on his zimbabwean farm. He took so much out of zimbabwean cricket but seemed to give nothing back when it needed him. ok he had injuries but he could have continued to bat in the logan cup for a couple of seasons!

paoli that one day squad really does look light in the batting department. blignaut is a great batsmen but against the new ball may not be as effective...number 4 would be the highest i'd bat him at.
stuart carlisle is one of zims best one day batsmen...personally i'd put him in the team before ebrahim. (ebrahim has a terrible record, whereas carlisle has 3 100's --> 2 against australia)

Craig wishart fails way more times than he gets runs. he had a couple of solid 90's..but not much else...i saw him in a logan cup match once and he made the opposition look pathetic and apparently he does it quite a bit...if he ever did it at the top level he could be awesome for zimbabwean cricket!

[Paoli]

Many believe Craig Wishart was the most talented cricketer in Zimbabwe; I saw him play quite a few times, for Mashonaland against England, and one of the best knocks I saw him play was against India where he made 102. When Wishy is on fire he is truly the best bat to watch in Zimbabwe. But that is why Wishart shouldn't play; he doesn't produce the form often enough and hasn't in over two years.

Just on G.Whittall; he went to run his safari business. Point about Carlisle; taken, but I don't think he is the same batsman since he came back, he just looks nowhere near as good. But, then again, you'd take him on reputation. He's batted everywhere throughout his career but clearly his best is at three or four. The ODI squad looks light in the batting department, but Ferreira aint an ODI player, and Taylor is still disputable in my mind. Started well but has tapered off, and his running between the wickets is terrible to put it nicely. He's a pretty young and slim guy, but is a "junk food addict" to put it in his own words.

The best ODI Squad of seventeen would look like this, in my opinion: 1 Brendan Taylor, 2 Charlie Coventry, 3 Stuart Carlisle, 4 Craig Wishart, 5 Dion Ebrahim, 6 Hamilton Masakadza, 7 Arnie Blignaut, 8 Heath Streak, 9 Tatenda Taibu, 10 Douggie Hondo, 11 Andy Ireland, 12 Gavin Ewing, 13 Prosper Utseya, 14 Ed Rainsford, 15 Tinashe Panyangara, 16 Douglas Marillier, 17 Barney Rogers. Would you throw any others in there? I reckon that is about the best we have to offer; I've left out Mahwire, despite his good form in the last game, as I don' think he is viable to our ODI Team playing well.

But the worst thing would be for a couple of these players taking Kolpak deals; many counties would happily take Blignaut, Taibu, Wishart, Carlisle, Rogers and Rainsford as Kolpakers, so we have to make sure this doesn't happen by playing these guys. The fact is, the governing body fails consistently in its administration. I wouldn't expect them to act on this petition. They had absolutely no business with the rebels and didn't really win any of them back. Rogers, Coventry and Ewing returned becuase they had nothing to go to; Blignaut just came back out of the blue, Streak came back after apparent "concessions" but it was more his loyalty; Gripper, Carlisle and Wishart said it was "time to play cricket". I don't think ZC had any business with them as for winning them back.

[stone bird]

to that 17 i'd add vermeulen, matsikenyeri and jordane nicolle/campbell mcmillan

guy whittal went to run his safari. he still could have taken a month worth of days off to play in the logan cup. another thing is that he only has that farm because of his cricketing status in zimbabwe...mugabe has stolen 90% of farms.

based on stuart carlisle recent performances (NZ and India) you must take into account that he had played no top class cricket for over a year...facing shane bond is hard at the best of times!

[Paoli]

I agree, but I reckon Vermuelen is out of favour still, following the issue with Bvute against Bangladesh 18 months ago. For those not "in the know", there were 9 white players, Dion Ebrahim (Coloured) and one black player (Tatenda Taibu) picked for that match. Bvute thought it wasn't acceptable, so offered M Vermuelen a double match fee NOT to play. Jordan Nicolle has more pace than Campbell MacMillan so I'd add him. Matsikenyeri is another that I agree with.

Yes, Carlisle hasn't played much top class cricket but the point I have made is that I'm starting to wonder whether or not him and Wishart can still cut it at test level.

[stone bird]

the whole vermeulen issue was terrible for zimbabwean cricket...they have to move on but i doubt it.

hopefully nicolle gets a few games in the next logan cup.

carlisle i think will be able to cut it again and wishart was showing signs when he made that 30

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Paoli69

The best ODI Squad of seventeen would look like this, in my opinion: 1 Brendan Taylor, 2 Charlie Coventry, 3 Stuart Carlisle, 4 Craig Wishart, 5 Dion Ebrahim, 6 Hamilton Masakadza, 7 Arnie Blignaut, 8 Heath Streak, 9 Tatenda Taibu, 10 Douggie Hondo, 11 Andy Ireland, 12 Gavin Ewing, 13 Prosper Utseya, 14 Ed Rainsford, 15 Tinashe Panyangara, 16 Douglas Marillier, 17 Barney Rogers. Would you throw any others in there? I reckon that is about the best we have to offer; I've left out Mahwire, despite his good form in the last game, as I don' think he is viable to our ODI Team playing well..

i would definitely put mupariwa in th ODI squad. i did actually see him bowl once (tricky to watch cricket where i am with no sky - but have occassionally been able to on the net or through friends) and he looked good for it. plus he has had a very good intro. to it (one thing i can do easily is follow commentary and if i feel like it - and am not making mistakes - check statistical performances. [that is what i meant by "in the know" paoli, i was refering to myself not being "in the.." - i haven't seen these new guys enough to comment on technique - tho' personally i prefer performance to technique which is why i never cared too much for campbell and would not be demanding sibanda gets another go too quickly]

with regards the test team - if those 4 are back in contention i think carlisle is worth his place in the team - i've defended him on many occassion despite my comments on him recently.

Originally Posted by Paoli69

But the worst thing would be for a couple of these players taking Kolpak deals; many counties would happily take Blignaut, Taibu, Wishart, Carlisle, Rogers and Rainsford as Kolpakers, so we have to make sure this doesn't happen by playing these guys..

if they're really of int. quality they'll get a streak type deal which allows him to fulfill national duties - i think, isn't that why he's not at warcs at the mo'?

Originally Posted by Paoli69

The fact is, the governing body fails consistently in its administration. I wouldn't expect them to act on this petition. They had absolutely no business with the rebels and didn't really win any of them back. Rogers, Coventry and Ewing returned becuase they had nothing to go to; Blignaut just came back out of the blue, Streak came back after apparent "concessions" but it was more his loyalty; Gripper, Carlisle and Wishart said it was "time to play cricket". I don't think ZC had any business with them as for winning them back.

i agree that streak returned out of loyalty (of course it could be that the longer he resisted the more chance zanu had of taking his farm) - i simply don't know. i don't think anyone at all returned because of the concession - but there were some pretty innocuous ones (i don't remember what they were but could research it) which opened the door so that they could return without completely losing face. otherwise none of them could have come back with any self-respect.

i did research it http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanhe...52004/sp10.asp there's also an interview with G Flower (before this occured) about how this was a key issue and Taibu was not. i'm not defending an incompetent body - just defending my claim of "concessions".

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by stone bird

I don't know if zimbabwe need time off...it comes up everytime we get smashed that zimbabwe should be stripped of test match status. when we played against australia last, we then had a test series against the west indies...we should have won the series/we were so close. i think exposure is the best way to improve.!

it has only really come up once before that i know of and that was the tour to England and the team was described as zim 3rd team - we were subsequently hammered but showed signs of promise. i have used the aus tour as proof of thier rapid learning before (and i believe it) but we were really hammered there too. price did cause some problems in sydney i know but the only thing they got out of the trip was thier performances in the ODIs and a sign of promise from ervine and price + the wishart 100. these things were carried through to the WI tour which again you are right we should've won: blignaut was outstanding, streak was too, price continued his form as did ervine, but then...boom..another setback followed by a loss to BD and that is the reason why this time the calls are being aired more vigorously added to that the massive defeats to SA, SL and NZ (we've never been so consistently non-competative)...i personally still hope it's nothing more than calls!

but having been assured that hosting nations like zim (more so in this state) incurs big financial loss we better start getting there quick or the calls won't go away - i agree absolutely that exposure is the only way forward and even a sabbatical should be unnecessary. maybe playing home tests and arranging away tours against "A"-teams would be a good idea.

Originally Posted by stone bird

unfortunately zimbabwe have no friends in world cricket. countries like australia, south africa and india aren't going to let zimbabwean players participate in their domestic comps at the expense of local players. south africa would never let a zim provincial side play in their comp...especially since they have recently cut team.!

panyangara stayed on in BD after the u/19 WC - ok hard to know what he could have learned there that he couldn't in zim but subcontinent countries may feel they have some things in common - after all they never talk of boycotts...do they?

Originally Posted by stone bird

i agree that past players have a role to play in zimbabwean cricket...!!

me too


Ebrahim wouldn't make my ODI team but i think they have to try him a little longer in the test team now.