Zimbabwean ICC Status

[Paoli]

Firstly, I'd move Trevor Gripper and Craig Wishart on. Unfortunately for Grip, he is 28 and is a poor batsman by test standards. Wishart has been a waste of a brilliant talent.

The side would be:

1. Taylor- He is the best of the "new" school batsman and I've been impressed with him ever since he has come on to the scene. He has had a few lean patches but has made quite a few fifties. The guy is only 18 and seems able to adapt into Test or ODI mode.
2. Rogers- If we are going to keep our very good talents, we must play them so it gives them the obligation to stay; by keeping them on the outer, we aren't going to do anything. Rogers off spin is also pretty handy and can play to any part of the wicket.
3. Stuart Carlisle- He is an old, experienced, talented head in a side of boys and can reproduce his best form; if given an extended run.
4. Masakadza- He is a brilliantly talented player; the first of only two black Zimbabwean players to have made a test century. The fact that he made a century on debut is testament to the fact that he is an awesome talent. Again, we must show faith in him.
5. Ferreira- Can swap with Taylor between the one and five position but by my reckoning the new ball at international level gives him a bit too much trouble. He's long been the most underrated Zimbabwean batsman for ages and if we persist with him we may be able to find some good.
6. Marillier/Chigumbura- Line ball between these two, probably Marillier for his batting though. Chigumbura's medium pace reminded me of Bravo and can turn into a very viable ODI bowling option as well as an excellent batsman.
7. Taibu- Self explanatory
8. Streak- Self explanatory
9. Blignaut- Another obvious choice.
10. Mupariwa- Very good fast bowler who has performed when he has been given the chance. Has been given an unfair deal in the past and the best way is to put him in the eleven.
11. Graeme Cremer- Will mature into a Stuart MacGill type bowler for Zimbabwe. Goes for runs, but gets wickets.

[stone bird]

the problem with zimbabwean cricket is that they have always given extended runs to the players with the best techniques in zimbabwe...ie sibanda seems to get a decent run and campbell and ebrahim before him...they have never given extended runs to players who score heavily in zimbabwean cricket!

the only way for zimbabwean cricket to move forward i feel is if a group of "outsiders" with cricket knowledge run zimbabwean cricket for a year or two...to get it back on track. (the icc could just put someone at the top who dictates how cricket is run, therefore people like bvute would have no power)

Mupariwa is a bowler just on medium pace (similar to ian harvey)...he cannot bat and he would be extremely ineffective at test cricket...one day cricket is a different story.

with what is left this would be my zimbabwean team

1. Taylor
2. Ferreira/Gripper gripper was doing decently until the rebel thing occurred. Ferreira could be anything...heavy scorer, but a worrying technique
3. Carlisle
4. Vermeulen - mark waughesque
5.Wishart (the only zim player with the ability to destroy the opposition with a big powerful innings)
6. Masakadza/rogers
7. Taibu
8. Streak
9. Blignaut
10. Panyangara/hondo
11. bryan strang

better off playing 4 seamers than cremer..who needs lots of improving..gripper, masakadza, rogers taibu can all bowl spin

[stone bird]

one day cricket is a different story...new players can be trialled.

1. Taylor
2. Carlisle
3. Wishart
4. Rogers
5. Masakadza
6. Taibu
7. Ewing
8. Streak
9. Chigumbura
10. Blignaut
11. Uteysa

[Prince EWS]

Rogers, Carlisle, Feirerra and Wishart are also gone Im afraid. Gripper, Marillier, Strang, Nkala, Vermeulen etc are also off limits until at least next year, when contracts are decided again.

In tests, I'd go for:

1. Brendan Taylor
2. Dion Ebrahim (never rated him, but there is no-one else available..)
3. Hamilton Masakadza
4. Tatenda Taibu
5. Charles Coventry
6. Stuart Matsikenyeri
7. Heath Streak
8. Gavin Ewing
9. Andy Blignaut
10. Blessing Mahwire
11. Douglas Hondo

In ODIs:

1. Brendan Taylor
2. Andy Blignaut
3. Hamilton Masakadza
4. Tatenda Taibu
5. Charles Coventry
6. Heath Streak
7. Stuart Matsikenyeri
8. Gavin Ewing
9. Blessing Mahwire
10. Prosper Utseya
11. Edward Rainsford
SuperSub: Sean Williams

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

Rogers, Carlisle, Feirerra and Wishart are also gone Im afraid. Gripper, Marillier, Strang, Nkala, Vermeulen etc are also off limits until at least next year, when contracts are decided again.

if that's the (unfortunate) case, i can happily agree with this:

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

In tests, I'd go for:

1. Brendan Taylor
2. Dion Ebrahim (never rated him, but there is no-one else available..)
3. Hamilton Masakadza
4. Tatenda Taibu
5. Charles Coventry
6. Stuart Matsikenyeri
7. Heath Streak
8. Gavin Ewing
9. Andy Blignaut
10. Blessing Mahwire
11. Douglas Hondo

Ebrahim staked his claim today (in mutare) against india. i think he really did improve with the extended run given him. i have to admit that like campbell and sibanda i wanted him axed after a few streaky performances. Mahwire never springs to my mind but he's what we've got.


no ndebele...so to move the topic again - do you think this is a good idea if there doesn't seem to be much in it: eg. mahwire/mupariwa - imo (i know mupariwa had a nothing only test but he showed potential in his ODI outings)? or is there no place for the kind of "positive discrimination" that suggests if two candidates are of equalish ability, the spot should go to the one which will provide a more positive image - proportionally?

[Captain]

In my view they should be put on probation, and go from there.

[stone bird]

Originally Posted by butchering lee

no ndebele...so to move the topic again - do you think this is a good idea if there doesn't seem to be much in it: eg. mahwire/mupariwa - imo (i know mupariwa had a nothing only test but he showed potential in his ODI outings)? or is there no place for the kind of "positive discrimination" that suggests if two candidates are of equalish ability, the spot should go to the one which will provide a more positive image - proportionally?

there is a massive difference between mupariwa and mahwire...picking mupariwa because he is a matebele ahead of mahwire for "image" would be ridiculous.

zimbabwe should pick players solely on ability...that should be final!

has anyone even seen the list of the top 30 players?

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by stone bird

there is a massive difference between mupariwa and mahwire...picking mupariwa because he is a matebele ahead of mahwire for "image" would be ridiculous.

zimbabwe should pick players solely on ability...that should be final!

has anyone even seen the list of the top 30 players?

when i talk of "image" - i mean how it seems to those underrepresented. cricket has a bad rap because certain sectors of the community reckon they're getting a bum deal (before you say it - i know there are other reasons it has a bad rap). there was talk how all the money was being put into northern teams (maybe nonsense but there was talk...i think there was even an article on it somewhere). i have'nt seen these guys but mupariwa was selected to play once so they obviously rated him some. dabengwa too - how does he compare with utseya.

picking solely on ability is, i agree, the ultimate aim - which is why i said when players have similar potential. positive discrimination is very popular in parts of the world - when there is little to distinguish between the candidates!!


*a further edit: http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2...MOST_WKTS.html at least in the logan cup mahwire's abilities are shown to be superior. if this is how they make their selections mupariwa is not as bad as the "massive" difference suggests. however, mahwire was not thought to be cutting it at int. level. - that's wisden's take anyway and he certainly never springs to my mind. mupariwa on the other hand had a good turnout against SL i think - (hope it wasn't BD) - in ODIs. he has not been given anything like a real go at test level. i know there are bowlers who are more suited to the one day game etc but...well, people may ask questions - after all he's had two great logan cup seasons on the trot.

[butchering lee]

hi stone bird - don't often see another zimbo on while i'm on (tho' i appear to be on all the time i think...downloading)


i saw this(written by one of you??) on the bbc site what do you all think (related to thread topic):

I think Zim needs a sabbatical (as opposed to a ban...that doesn't sound right, it sounds like a punishment and permanant and negative at the least!). ICC could take a stand ... The players' cofidence is not gainning from the status quo, ZCU image is not earning any points, this ultimately may kill the sport in Zim forever (and what a pitty that would be you only need to have seen the enjoyment of the crowd on Sunday black and white). Ask them to take a year or 6 months off to get the structures right. They seem to have gotten over the colour issue, and the talent seems to be there (black and white...Coventry, Taylor, Masakadza, Ferraira, Utseya, Ewing, Chigumbura, Panyangara, Rodgers, Williams, Sibanda are all up and comming, Streak, Taibu, Blignaut, Carlisle, Strang and Wishart are sufficient experience) but the system needs to be carefully worked out, not the knee jerk reactions we are getting, which are counter productive in the long term. Each player must be told their role in the system, a work plan devised for each individual, not this hapharzard approach, so as to prepare for next week's test or ODI, it must be a 6 month, 1 year , 5 year plan for (a) the system (b) team, (c) the individual talents identified. Goals and guidelines must be identified and implemented with regular reviews.

If the greater cricket community IS indeed interested in saving Zim cricket (a fact I sometimes...most times actually...doubt), they do have a role to play:

1. Administrative assistance can be lent via interchange/secondment of staff to Zim so they can learn from more successful boards [care needed here...no ill person finds pleasure in taking unpalateable medicine, let alone a proud ZCU who are prepared to kill the game than admit they need help].

2. The players can be hosted for 3/4 months stints to gain exposure. Most of the resent failures can be pinned to the batsmen not being able to deal with genuine pace bowling [Nel (SA) , Bond(NZ), Pathan(Ind)], because they are hardly exposed to such in the local game. This could be in the form of taking the spin group [Creamer, Utseya, Williams, Dabengwa, Ewing, etc to the subcontinent to polish their trade skills, pace team of Hondo, Panyangara, Blignaut, Streak, Chigumbura, Mhahwire, Ireland, Rainsford, Mpofu, Mpariwa could be scattered through Aus, SA, NZ, and the batsmen spread throughout these helpful "friends" [if they exist!]. Alternatively during the 6 month sabbatical, why not ask the SA local competition to host a "provincial" side for a season, giving better exposure.

Past players have a role to play. We have the brains, Fletcher being a prime example, doing wonders with the English team, he is a Zim product, and actually briefly captained Zim. ZCU must swallow their pride and harness this vast and underutilised human resource. We cannot continue to lose the likes of Campbell, Strang, Houghton, Whittal, Olonga, Mbagwa, Brandos, etc former greats and heros of the current crop of youngsters. They got from the system, and am sure would love to give back, either as coaches, technical advisors, selectors, etc, etc We cannot helplessly do with less than best coaches whom we then turn on a few months down the line, to quote Kevin Curran (new coach and former player...a rare correct direction tken by ZCU ) the boys "have lacked coaching at this level", which is frightening, and also encouraging...imagine what they would achieve if they had a proper coach?

[Paoli]

Going back again, the two sides for mine would be (including the players on the contractual outer, as a petition has now been signed)
TEST

Taylor
Rogers
Carlisle
Masakadza
Ferreira/Coventry (Ferreira's ability, is, however, quite limited in the test arena)
Marillier/Chigumbura
Taibu
Streak
Blignaut
Cremer
Hondo

ODI

Coventry
Blignaut (like that idea, a Shahid Afridi style pinch hitter up the top of the order)
Carlisle/Ebrahim (probably Ebrahim, produces more uncanny knocks at ODI level)
Rogers
Matsikenyeri/Dougie Marillier
Streak
Taibu
Ewing
Utseya
Hondo
Mupariwa
Supersub: Ed Rainsford.

Ewing, although very inexpensive in the recent series, his bowling isn't good enough for test match level. He's a pretty good batsman though, his average was about 45 in the Logan Cup until recently. Utseya doesn't take enough wickets to be considered a test bowler, whereas Cremer does. But if we play Cremer in the ODI team, he'd go for about one hundred runs. I'm still unconvinced by Matsikenyeri. He certainly has the shots to play a vital role; I've seen him play three very good innings: A brilliant 44 at Lord's which helped Grant Flower steer the ship for Zimbabwe to win, A lovely 70-odd against England in Bulawayo; when he got going, there was no stopping him, and 36 vs. India at Perth in early 2004. The best thing about that was everybody else was going like flies.

If ZC played their cards right, perhaps they'd be able to keep these players and have a few on the fringe. As for Craig Wishart; the only time he has "destroyed" an opposition as such with a huge innings, was against Namibia in the World Cup. I think we have to move him on.

Now; recently Kenya's governing body for Cricket was overthrown and a new one was formed. I think the ICC should take a stance on this and perhaps reduce ZC to nothing, get a group of Zimbabwean businessmen, I don't care if they know bugger all about cricket, but at least they'd be able to run the bloody association. And, perhaps during that time, Zimbabwe could take, as butchering lee showed, a small sabbatical from the game while everything gets into order.