Zimbabwean ICC Status

[Paoli]

Right: make your feelings known about what you think about Zimbabwean test status and whether or not it should remain.

Many see Zimbabwean cricket as an absolute farce, myself included, left still reeling from bad administration and the departures of 15 rebel cricketers last year. Racial division is seen as an issue as well.

So come on; I've put in a poll, vote as you think. And i guarantee you that nothing said here, unless drastically over stepping the mark, will be considered Wind Up Merchant material.

[The Phantom Ram]

Give them a bit more time. They have produced good cricketers in the past and can - once the country has sorted out it's many political issues - do so again.

[vvvrulz]

After being trounced in such ridiculous circumstances, and that by two of the weaker cricketing nations in the world today, I think its high time their status was looked at by the ICC.

At least Bangladesh are putting up a show and actually look to be improving, this team is diabolical at the moment and more thrashings as severe as this does them no good at all.

[stone bird]

if taylor, blignaut, panyangara, chigumbura and another batsmen of potential are still around in 5 years they will be able to compete like they were 2 years ago

[Spinner]

I'm sad to see Zimbabwe hit such lows, when only a few years ago they were competing well. I seem to remember that in the 199 World Cup they even qualified for the Super Six!

Right now, though, the situation is terrible. But whether they should be have their status revoked, I'm not so sure. Give them another year, perhaps? And full credit to Heath Streak for his determination - it's pretty much him vs NZ/IND - though in their last match they showed some signs of improvement.

[Paoli]

Last night was good; our bowling was professional in keeping them to 238 and our batting, whilst lacking a bit in terms of runscoring power, did quite well; especially Andy Blignaut and Charles Coventry.

Thus said, this is quite an improvement. For Zimbabwe, it is about keeping the squad together. If they can do that then they are a chance to perhaps reach the heights that they have once achieved. The only issue now is whether or not they have the ability to manufacture another Andy Flower/Dave Houghton. I doubt it very much, though.

[Prince EWS]

Zimbabwe may not be performing to the standard required now, but that is not reason enough to simply cast them aside. The West Indies are not performing to the standard required either, but calls for them to be stipped of test status have not been fforthcoming. Granted they havent been playing nearly as badly as Zimbabwe, but the arguments used suggesting that Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are a step below the rest, and hence shouldnt be playing, apply to the Windies as well.

The reason people havent been calling for the heads of the Windies is because they are obviously just going through a lean trot, and are attempting to develop their younger players and build a team from the ground up. People know they will improve. The same can be said for Zimbabwe. If a country simply isnt producing players good enough for test cricket, then by all means, questions should be raised. But this hasnt been Zimbabwe's problem. A lineup looking something like:

1. Grant Flower
2. Brendon Taylor
3. Murray Goodwin
4. Andy Flower
5. Stuart Carlisle
6. Sean Ervine
7. Tatenda Taibu
8. Heath Streak
9. Andy Blignaut
10. Raymond Price
11. Henry Olonga

would definately be good enough to be considered test standard. The problem is the administration and the selection of the side. Most of these players have either migrated overseas or simply pre-maturly retired from cricket. Disputes between players and the board are only short-term though. Many of these players are lost to international cricket, but the next generation will always come through. Zimbabwe is in an all-time low at the moment, but they will recover. All the above players simply came through the ranks and played for their country, and the next group of Zimbabwean players are just a little too younf at the moment. They will mature though, and, as always occurs in cricket, players replace themselves. Brendon Taylor, Barney Rogers, Sean Williams and Tinashe Panyangara may not seem worthy of club cricket as it stands, but players like Carlisle, Flower and Streak wouldnt have been much better at their age.

The ICC are looking to the future with Zimbabwe. Sure, they will cop a pummelling now, but as long as the players continue to come, there is always hope that the administration will sort itself out. The ICC is in no position to make a decision based on political or administrative grounds, and those are the only reasons that the team is in the horrible state it is. Patience is the key.

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

If a country simply isnt producing players good enough for test cricket, then by all means, questions should be raised. But this hasnt been Zimbabwe's problem. A lineup looking something like:

1. Grant Flower (ave 29.54 - replace him with matsikenyeri{28.09} start with the youth now)
2. Brendon Taylor (ave under 20 - try marrillier with a 31 ave + bowling 29.2 ave - zim's best test allrounder)
3. Murray Goodwin (learnt cricket in aus. - heart never in zim imo - you'd have to go for masakadza{26.8}, a tad worse than carlisle and campbell but very much of the new era, or G whittal{29.5} if he's as young as i think)
4. Andy Flower (genius of a bygone era - to put him in the same list of these guys list make him feel ancient)
5. Stuart Carlisle (ave 27.7 - might as well turn freind{29.80} into a specialist bat as they're doing in eng)
6. Sean Ervine (32.6 + bowling improving)
7. Tatenda Taibu (28.72 - he's coming along)
8. Heath Streak (obviously)
9. Andy Blignaut (great s.r and batting to boot)
10. Raymond Price (35.86)(or huckle {34.88})- who's older?
11. Henry Olonga (38.52)(watambwa{35.00} - mbangwa {31.43} - even hondo {36.85}/ watambwa and hondo have a similar s.r to olonga and are more economical)

remove flower and goodwin and problems never really left -late 20´s very early 30's aves - test level material?



The problem is the administration and the selection of the side. true!! Most of these players have either migrated overseas or simply pre-maturly retired from cricket. Disputes between players and the board are only short-term though. unfortunately they're not that short term - huckle, johnson, goodwin, campbell, watambwa left before "the crisis" and money is not coming from places it could, like tv rights, so you can't persuade talented guys to play cricket rather than focus on getting degrees. i remember guys who were better than olonga at school - in colts, fawns, zim schools... but never seriously considered it a future.
The ICC is in no position to make a decision based on political or administrative grounds, and those are the only reasons that the team is in the horrible state it is. true!! Patience is futile! what are the underlying causes of the administration's failures?? how do we tackle them?? how do we make cricket appealling in zim after what it's been through ?? if you are saying we should be patient in our attempts to be competing with bangladesh for bottom spot - i will be and i'll still enjoy watching the other games, we may even win one or two then we'll be back to the good old days .

i can see no good for zimbos coming from revoking test status no matter what views i have of our team

[Prince EWS]

1. Grant Flower (ave 29.54 - replace him with matsikenyeri{28.09} start with the youth now)

Just decide to make up an average for Matsikenyeri? He averages 23.40.
Even though they may seem decent for a Zimbabwean, he isnt an opener IMO. The fact that he averages just 19.58 when opening, with only one fifty (against Bangladesh!!) backs up my point. He isnt as good as Grant Flower, and never will be - not as an opener, anyway.

2. Brendon Taylor (ave under 20 - try marrillier with a 31 ave + bowling 29.2 ave - zim's best test allrounder)

You seem to just throw averages in off the top of your head to suit your aguement.
Taylor averages 24.81.

As for Marillier, I think he is the most over-exaggerated player to ever play for Zimbabwe. He played a total of five test matches, two against Bangladesh. He never opened the batting either - he even failed as an opener in ODI cricket, so I dont see why you want him opening in tests.

If you remove his games against Bangladesh, he averages 15.25 with the bat and 52.50 with the ball. He showed potential with bat and ball - yes, and he should have been given a bigger chance. But largely, he was a test failure with both bat and ball. If he was a better allrounder than Heath Streak, Ill eat my hat.

3. Murray Goodwin (learnt cricket in aus. - heart never in zim imo - you'd have to go for masakadza{26.8}, a tad worse than carlisle and campbell but very much of the new era, or G whittal{29.5} if he's as young as i think)

Whether you believe his heart was in it or not, he still averaged in the mid 40s in test cricket. My point is, if Zim could produce players like this in the past, they can do so again.

4. Andy Flower (genius of a bygone era - to put him in the same list of these guys list make him feel ancient)

If it were not for the politics and administration problems in Zimbabwe, he would still be playing test cricket.

5. Stuart Carlisle (ave 27.7 - might as well turn freind{29.80} into a specialist bat as they're doing in eng)

Carlisle is a class act. The selectors stuffed him around by constantly moving him up and down the order, and using him as a utility. To leave him out for an inconsistant player like Friend, who never really worked too hard on his batting, is exactly the reason he averages in the high 20s - no confidence in him. If he had been given confidence in his place, his average would be 10 higher.

10. Raymond Price (35.86)(or huckle {34.88})- who's older?

I dont care who's older. Price showed, right before the rebel issue, that he was really learning as a test bowler. He was starting to become a real threat. He worried the Australians in Sydney and then troubled West Indies as well.

11. Henry Olonga (38.52)(watambwa{35.00} - mbangwa {31.43} - even hondo {36.85}/ watambwa and hondo have a similar s.r to olonga and are more economical)

The last bowling spot doesnt worry me too much. It could go to a host of guys.

[The Phantom Ram]

I am a Derbyshire fan and as far as I understand we aren't turning Friend into a batsman he just hasn't been fit enough to bowl.