So the champions trophy begins

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

Its a sad sight watching Zimbabwe play, they had some greats player.

who says these players could not be great with grooming?

[it is a scourge that we've lost the talent we've had but these guys can learn to play cricket - better if they start with less formidable foe - and with a bit of experience around them for guidance but...]

our batting was ALWAYS fragile - even when campbell, goodwin, johnson and flower were in the team we failed to hit 90 to win a test against WI (i was heartbroken) - in truth those guys i expected from and they often failed to deliver and with the loss of johnson and goodwin the batting simply never looked competitive again - despite some decent performances. Saying that, however, a new bunch were draughted in : taibu, price, ervine and of course streak's batting had improved immensely through exposure...and a team described exactly as this one is (with less accuracy) was suddenly being commended for their efforts in OZ and an unlucky result against WI. of course there are some stark differences - age (and therefore experience) being obvious - which lend weight to the calls for relegation...if that happens i'll accept it readily. if not - i will support the promise i see:

(batting)
chibhabha 14 matches with a 28 average vs. collingwood after 14 had 29

taylor after 49 had 30 ave vs. G. jones after the same has 25

------------------
(bowling)
M'pariwa after 12 had 22 wkts@ 24ave vs. Mahmood has 12 wkts @ 46 ave

Ireland after 18 has 25 @ 31 vs. plunkett after 16 has 16 @ 45



just a bit of fun for greg - you started it

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by greg

As a point of interest if Zimbabwe had all their players available how many of the current champions trophy squad would be involved?

I rest my case.

i did do a statistical comparison between old and new players once (somewhere amoung these threads) and at the same point in their odi careers they were much of a muchness...bar the obvious.


but your point remains; which has, at least in part, led us (the zim team) here.

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by greg

Butchering Lee you obviously have a problem with me so i shall not bother commenting on Zimbabwe again after this post ...

this is what i was talking about ... paoli.

[butchering lee]

Originally Posted by Paoli

Zimbabwe is... Figure that one out!

so many people think they have (figured zim out)- try as i might, i certainly haven't - i don't think anyone has!

[Andy Mellon]

I'll try and be a bit positive for you butchering_lee.

I don't think there's a bad amount of good youth talent in the Zimbabwe team.

Elton Chigumbura, Brendan Taylor, Stuart Matsikenyeri, Terry Duffin, Anthony Ireland - all pretty good players.

What they need to do is get rid of the padding and start picking the same XIII squad for every game - no matter if someone seems out of form.

Get rid of Piet Rinke as well. He's not good enough with bat or ball for international cricket

Confidence is what the team needs - playing and winning consistantly against strong 2nd division teams such as Holland, Ireland and Kenya will give them more confidence when playing the top teams.

[butchering lee]

thank you - andy! i agree with everything - i'm probably over-optimistic so i'd add a few more players to the list - rainsford, mupariwa, utseya (are also promising) while sibanda and masakadza have shown just about enough to be further persisted with - i think our baytting is so poor that these guys at least have some ODIs under their belt, and even occassionally performed in them (Chibhabha too should now just be persisted with).


i fear you are right on rinke. and i also see they've brought brent in for duffin (who is really best at keeping his wkt) so more good news - which is obviously a very relative thing



i have been wondering about the merits of confidence and how it is achieved - winning is certainly one way, and for that alone i think the more games against the teams you mention - the better!

[Maranello]

for that alone i think the more games against the teams you mention - the better!

True - games against Holland, Ireland etc would be good. But these countries do not have a professional cricket structure and hence any such games would be few and far between - more like one-off knockabouts, and thus of limited use. Surely much better for Zimbabwe to field an A team (or even the main team) in some good domestic tournament (could be England, Australia or even South Africa). The standard of cricket will be fairly high, and Zimbabwe's players would get regular exposure to playing against other professionals - there is a lot that can be learnt from playing proper cricket day in, day out, which occasional limited over tournaments or Sunday league cricket just cannot address.

[butchering lee]

yeah - i have a hope that they could sneak a team into the SA set-up. if politics is as involved as suggested this should not be too difficult as zanu and the anc have lots of history (and fresh evidence in the recent debt payments by SA) still, that's a hell of a lot of hoping!!


while we're talking pie in the sky - wouldn't mind aftab ahmed and ashrafal changing allegiances to bolster our batting

[Paoli]

Originally Posted by greg

Butchering Lee you obviously have a problem with me so i shall not bother commenting on Zimbabwe again after this post but it is worth noting that they are the first side out of the ICC Trophy and i await the game between Zimbabwe and Bangladesh with interest.

Firstly, there is a sanctuary rule in place...Secondly, no Zimbabwe forum member has ever whinged to a mod to have a post taken out of there- we're all fairly thick skinned. But you've made points that are obviously not statistically researched, and butchering lee just cleared it up for you. Your posts were fairly provocative, so bl was entitled to his reply if you ask me...

Originally Posted by Greg

I wish things hadn't turned out as they have for Zimbabwe as they had a decent side in the days of the Flower's,Streak and Taibu but these days they are virtually playing the B team against full sides which inevitably only has one outcome.

As a point of interest if Zimbabwe had all their players available how many of the current champions trophy squad would be involved?

I rest my case.

As BL Said, our batting has always been fragile. Not just that failure to score 90 to win a test in the West Indies, but also making 120 or so against the very same opposition at home a mere three years ago. We had class players but Andy Flower aside they couldn't be called upon to do a job all of the time. Considering the likes of Goodwin, A & G Flower, Johnson, Whittall, Strang and co. were considered "international class" at the very least, I for one was very excited when the likes of Ervine, Blignaut and Carlisle began to play a more regular role.

Again BL alludes to our drubbing in England, at least in the test matches, where we were disposed of and considered C Class. The only wins we had in the test leg were against the students and minor counties. And, in the ODI's, I think you should at least remember our win in the first one over you guys...And we had you at 4-45 one day when rain halted and cancelled play. Anyway...

There is a fair amount of talent- Zimbabwe have never had any trouble producing talented cricketers. Ireland keeps on getting wickets, Elton Chigumbura is as close to a genuine allrounder as we've got, Sibanda and Matsikenyeri like to play their shots, Masakadza hit 100 on debut, Brendan Taylor is good and Piet Rinke imo isn't bad Andy. He's hit runs in the past and has one thing that everyone bar Duffin lacks- concentration.

Anyway, if they do get any good, chances are they'll defect somewhere. Keeping on to class cricketers is what we've failed to do!! Cases in point Ervine, Brant, de Grandhomme!

[Andy Mellon]

Originally Posted by Paoli

and Piet Rinke imo isn't bad Andy. He's hit runs in the past and has one thing that everyone bar Duffin lacks- concentration.

Anyway, if they do get any good, chances are they'll defect somewhere. Keeping on to class cricketers is what we've failed to do!! Cases in point Ervine, Brant, de Grandhomme!

Well, I am sure you've seen more of Rinke than me, but all I've seen of him (probably about 10 balls faced batting in 3 innings, and about half a dozen overs) smells of 'decent club cricketer' to me. Saying that, he's clearly as much of an opener as Darren Gough and I'm guessing that being put up there in an international isn't doing him any favours.

As for Scott Brant, well, the least said about him the better. I have seen a lot of Scott Brant during his time at Essex, some would say too much. He was awful. The worst Essex player in the last 10 years. Not helped by a run of nasty injuries, but I could count his useful performances on the fingers of one hand. If you're hankering for Brant, Zimbabwean cricket's in a worse state than I thought!

Thankfully, I wouldn't replace any of the current Zimbabwe attack with Brant.

What's your opinion on Brendan Taylor doing the keeping, do you think we'd see more of his batting potential realised if the keeping was passed on (preferably back to Tatenda Taibu!)?